Why all this debate about who is and who isn't enlightened? I suggest that you do what I do: assume EVERYONE you meet in life -- whether meditators or not -- are enlightened. Even the born agains.
Make it your default. And if people, through their words or actions, demonstrate that they aren't enlightened, then okay, that's their problem. But why WOULDN'T you assume everyone you come in contact with is enlightened? I mean, why shouldn't you? Don't you want to see the best in everybody? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > OK Rick, > > Now asking in public so all can participate. I suspect that all of those that you know that > you say are realized have proclaimed this on their own without their Guru declaring this, > or they did not or currently do not have a guru, or they have their own inner Guru- either > in some form or otherwise. > > It does seem that enlightenment is also possible without the guru but I think it is very > rare. Even Ramana, from which this idea that it is possible, had a Guru ( acording to my > guru- I think the name was Archula). You pointed out that among other functions with the > Guru is telling one to continue even though they think they have arrived. This is the key > missing element for those self proclaiming as above because a Sat Guru in living form can > quiclky see if there is further to go once they are with the people for some time. That is > how it works in my path > > My experience with it is I have been with and read about both those self proclaiming as > above and also those proclaimed enlightened by their Guru who also were proclaimed > enlightened by their Guru in a chain continueing upwards. The Self procalimed fell apart > every time under scrutiny. I have seen a lot in the last two years like this- maybe 20. > > It is a subtle difference by quite clear to me, with the aide of my guru pointing out the > diffferences. There is a value to it- keeping holy company is wise, so good to make sure > the company one keeps is 100% holy sometimes. > > Some of these people screw others up in various ways. Most amazing I saw was one with > all the perfect words describing themselves as enlightened. What came out once there > was an association with Sat Guru was this person was depressed, angry. and with violent > thoughts. > > I just recently saw in person a guru proclaiming his disciples enlightened, however the > guru himself is a self proclaimed enlightened one, and this also looks flawed. The topic is > a tricky one. > > Hridaya Puri >
