If you are right then this is just one step in Sam's appreciation of that. But the problem remains that in every religion, it is an elite minority that view it as you are. How many Hindus are Vedantists?
I don't think that MMY has the same exact view that you do because I think you are more intellectually honest (recognize this phrase!) about what you know and what you don't know. MMY seems to want to appear to be right about everything and it interferes with his ability to discover. He seems happy with any available analogy for what he already "knows". I wish he would go to the trouble to explicate > the metaphors and connect them directly to the > experiences of consciousness. Sometimes he does-- > in the famous Soma tape, for instance--but folks > tend to take the explication the wrong way around, > and think he's saying the metaphor is the reality. This is a good example. I don't believe that the main Vedic account of the race war between the dark skinned Dravidians and the Aryans is the most fertile area for this. But as fairly abstract poetry it can be used for almost any purpose as an illustration of a point. --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > > He comes *so close* in this essay to bridging > > > the gap between personal mystical experience > > > via meditation/contemplation and religion, but > > > in the end he refuses to make the leap, > > > dismissing religion as "Iron Age fairy tales." > > > > > > If only one of his "hundred sides" of this > > > intellectual struggle could involve a close study > > > of religious dogma *alongside* the reports of > > > mystical experience, to the point where it becomes > > > clear that the dogma in many if not most cases is > > > a metaphorical rendering of that very mystical > > > experience rather than "Iron Age fairy tales" > > > dreamed up in a vacuum. > > > > > > Bottom line, once the real nature of the "fairy > > > tales" is understood, there will no longer be any > > > need to dismiss and disparage them. > > > > I am not so sure you are that far apart. Here is a quote that > struck me: > > > > "And yet, for thousands of years, contemplatives have claimed to > find > > extraordinary depths of psychological well-being while spending vast > > stretches of time in total isolation. It seems to me that, as > rational > > people, whether we call ourselves "atheists" or not, we have a > choice > > to make in how we view this whole enterprise. Either the > contemplative > > literature is a mere catalogue of religious delusion, deliberate > > fraud, and psychopathology, or people have been having interesting > and > > even normative experiences under the name of "spirituality" and > > "mysticism" for millennia." > > But then he turns around and says the religious > stuff is "Iron Age fairy tales." > > > There is only a small part of religious literature that deals with > > such experiences. > > *Directly and explicitly*, right. > > Since I don't buy that scriptures are divinely > > inspired I don't see any reason to think that most religious > > mythology is actually a type of code for spiritual experience. > > ?? Why should one negate the other? I don't think > the scriptures are divinely inspired either. I *do* > think they're *metaphorical* descriptions--created > by human beans--of human experiences of the nature > and mechanics of consciousness. > > When scriptures > > talk about sacrificing an animal to appease a hidden God, I don't > > feel compelled to see it as more than what it appears to be: a way > > of thinking that people used to have when magical thinking was in > > place of scientific thinking. > > What I'm suggesting is that you don't feel > compelled to see it as a metaphor for something > deeper because nobody's provided a compelling > argument showing how the metaphor works. > > People like to make up stories and often > > times they are completely wrong factually. The Sun really doesn't > > get dragged across the sky in a chariot because it isn't the sun > > moving that makes it appear to rise and set, we are moving around > > the sun. It is a cute story but it misses the most important part > > of our relationship with the sun, we revolve around it. > > But is it the physical sun that's really being > described? Or is the sun a metaphor for something > else? > > <snip> > > MMY's religious devotion to his traditional scriptures marginalizes > > his contribution to this field. His techniques were developed by a > > pseudo scientific process of trial and error. I say pseudo because > he > > does not have a genuine interest in testing falsifiable theories, he > > always loads the deck. (and the people on his development courses > > don't get their money back when he finds something else, he just > > charges them again for the new stuff.) > > > > Since your approach to Vedic scriptures isn't of the hook line and > > sinker variety Judy, I would think you would have a more favorable > > view of his position. > > I wish he would go to the trouble to explicate > the metaphors and connect them directly to the > experiences of consciousness. Sometimes he does-- > in the famous Soma tape, for instance--but folks > tend to take the explication the wrong way around, > and think he's saying the metaphor is the reality. >
