--- In [email protected], "BillyG." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], Vaj <vajranatha@> wrote: > > snip > > While I do feel it might be safe to say some people have had some > > awakening or some realization, it's very likely these are huge > > exaggerations on the part of a few people. > > So which is it Vaj...I'm confused?
Well, some of both. If you'd been around the spiritual block a few more times, Billy, you might have noticed that the spiritual smorgas- bord is full of people who had a realization experience, declared it to the world as "I'm enlightened," and in some cases even set them- selves up as enlightened teachers, only to have the experience fade and go away within a few weeks or months or years. The sad part is that quite a few of these folks, now firmly ego-bound again, succumb to that ego and keep up the *pretense* of enlight- enment. They claim to be what they are not, working on mere memories of an experience that is no longer current. You tend to see this a lot in the NeoAdvaitain groups. Someone goes to a satsang, has a *legit- imate* experience of awakening, and thinking that such experiences are by definition perman- ent, declares themselves enlightened. People flock around and pat them on the back and say, "Oh, good for you...you 'got' it," and consider them "special." And often the very act of *believing* this specialness is enough to blast the awakening away and reduce the "enlightened one" to mere blubbering ego again. I don't tend to agree with Vaj that some trad- itions have a foolproof method of determining absolute state of consciousness in seekers. I tend to think that this is just P.R., and more "My kung fu is better than your kung fu." But at the same time, I feel a lot more comfortable with someone whose experiences of awakening have been verified by an also-awakened teacher, and whose experiences have lasted for quite some time, say ten years. Anything less than that and the person is playing with fire to call themselves "enlightened" IMO. Think it through. Would *you* have the balls to be able to say, after having announced your enlightenment to the world, "Oops, I was wrong. It was just a passing awakening?" I've met a few people who had that kind of honesty, and I admire them for it. The others, the ones who keep up the pretense of enlightenment because their egos like the stroking, I tend to pity. Never underestimate the "pile on" aspect of "mass enlightenment." There is a kind of "awaken- ing hysteria" that one sees from time to time in satsang groups. Someone "pops," has a minor awakening, and (for whatever reason), a number of others also start "popping." But check back on the group in six months, and not one of these "pop-ees" is still "popped." They're back to being kernels of corn, waiting for the heat to rise again. I personally think it's wiser to assume that you're still a mere kernel until you've lasted in full popped-popcorn mode for 20 years or so.
