Richard J. Williams wrote:
>>> So, it is not uncommon at all for teachers in India to
>>> teach mantra meditation on Ishtadevata, and many books on
>>> meditation mention this method, namely mantra meditation on
>>> Ishtdevata. And Swami Brahmanand Saraswati taught mantra
>>> meditation on Ishtadevata; and Marshy teaches mantra
>>> meditation on Istadevata.
>>>
>>>
> Bhairitu wrote:
>
>> No he doesn't.
>>
>>
> If you don't like the Istadevata associated with
> your mantra you can ask him to change your mantra. I've
> heard of people doing this.
>
And just when was the last time that Maharishi ever did a basic TM
instruction?
>
>> When you teach by Ishtadevata you ask the student who
>> their favorite Ishtadevata is.
>>
>>
> If students don't have a favorite Istadevata the teacher
> assigns them one. Most people from the West don't have a
> favorite Ishtadevata, so it wouldn't matter to them anyway.
>
Redundant. I already mentioned this so you're not even reading all of
my message.
>
>> TM doesn't do that.
>>
>>
> According to Marshy, the TM bija mantras are the pleasing
> names of the Gods.
>
>
Where? He usually claimed they were just meaningless sounds.
>>> So, it must be that, since they all teach mantra meditation
>>> on Ishtadevata, all those teachers have left out one important
>>> teaching point: namely the *effortless* aspect of mantra
>>> meditation.
>>>
>>> Otherwise, you'd have millions of people all over India
>>> reporting effortless transcending by use of a mantra
>>> based on their Ishtadevata.
>>>
>>> Instead, you have millions of people all over India
>>> *concentrating* and putting *effort* into their mantra
>>> meditation, instead of practicing TM and transcending
>>> effortlessly.
>>>
>>>
>> Totally bullshit. Most teachers teach the student not to
>> strain or hold the mind on the mantra or what you describe
>> as concentration. The teach the very same thing that as
>> soon as you notice you are not on the mantra to effortlessly
>> return to it.
>>
>>
> You have a short memory - Judy already told you that Swami
> Sivananda taught concentration, not effortlessness. Most
> meditation teachers support concentration; I mentioned at
> least four well-known teachers that I've studied with who
> didn't have a clue about the effortlessness of TM practice.
>
And Judy was wrong. You have to understand the full context of what
Sivananda is saying and at that point in the discussion I had already
mentioned that Indians tend to use the term "concentration" very
loosely. And what are the names of those four teachers?
> According to Swami Vishnudevanada, you should concentrate on
> the tip of your nose or on your navel.
>
>
>> Some gurus may even label this effortlessness "concentration"
>> but it is not concentration as westerners understand it nor
>> what Maharishi described as "concentration" in his lectures
>> and books.
>>
>>
> All I can say is that you never understood the nature of TM
> your TM instruction. But it has never been established that
> you ever practiced TM. From what I've read, you've been mixing
> up various practices since before you even got a TM initiation.
> It has been pretty much established that the two Barrys and Vaj
> don't understand the mechanics of TM.
>
ROTFL! I taught TM strictly with the process I was given to teach and I
don't believe you ever did teach it or attended a TTC. What would you
know? Why do you persist in believing you are the arbiter of
effortlessness?
>> Dream on.
>>
>>
> So, maybe you'd like to mention the names of the teachers
> that you know that teach effortlessness in mantra meditation.
My guru, Swami Abhayanand for one.
