>159652 > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > <mailander111@> wrote: > > > > I think I overstated Blake's point. It often happens that > >movements become rigid and doctrinal, as indeed happened with both > >the Shakers and some sects of Quakers as well. > >dhamiltony2k5 wrote: > Angela, that is okay. Yet, Blake's point does make for a good >avenue > in comparison criticism about succession in spiritual practice > movements. A lot has happened after Blake for comparison. > >According to William Blake, movements always end like this-- > stale, authoritarian, rigid.< > > Of course this is interesting & relevant if only because the > TMmovement we live with here has an aged founder. > > Nothing new under the sun, as they say. Succession in spiritual > movements ain't a new thing. Is interesting and may be useful to > look at how others have weathered it. Towards that end I spent a > week last summer living inside an old Shaker community studying >their > experience particularly with succession. Like with the Quakers, > their story of succession, splintering and separation is so well > written about and recorded by first hand voices. Others too >through > Am. History. > > The story often seems to turn on the shakti of the spiritual >practice > and the character of the founder-teacher how quick things become > doctrinal either rigid, stale or authoritarian. Blake has a good > point in making the observation though. People everywhere have a > pretty good sense of whether there is shakti and they will walk on > pretty quick whence shakti drops out of a group. It is a common > sense. That becomes a lesson in history when you look at it that >way. > > -Doug in FF >
Back in the 19th century a journalist traveled America visiting its utopian spiritual communities then. His was persistence at interviewing. Looking at their biographies of formation, governance, finances, sustenance & welfare, then chronicling into a form of comparison. 72 American spiritual communities then. East, West, North, South. He visited and lived in with them to collect and record their stories then. Published a book about it. American Utopias by Nordhoff (1875). "A (community) to exist harmoniously, must be composed of persons who are of one mind upon some question which to them shall appear so important as to take the place of a religion " I think Nordhoff likely would have concluded in the same format that the meditating community here in FF is, transcendentalist. Mostly held or gathered together by a conviction about transcendentalism and `consciousness-based-education' in utopian experiment. He seemed to tell it like it was as he found it. Nordhoff came very nearby Fairfield in his time. Icaria in Western Iowa, Amma Colonies, Bethel in NE Missouri and & Bishop Hill just across the way in Illinois, Swedesburg over in Henry County. Had he come through Fairfield now he likely would have been realistic and critical as he was otherwise in placing his observation about the Fairfield utopian experiment as we see it. Transcendentalist American. It is what it is. -Doug in FF, 2008 Some of the general conclusive comments he makes towards the end of his book: Nordhoff- " It is true that a commune to exist harmoniously, must be composed of persons who are of one mind upon some question which to them shall appear so important as to take the place of a religion, if it is not essentially religious; though it need not be fanatically held." "These seventy-two communes make but little noise in the world; they live quiet and peaceful lives, and do not like to admit strangers to their privacy." Communalists, "All of the communes under consideration have as their bond of union some form of religious belief". For instance, " make little of outward religious observances, are held together by their belief that the essence of all religion, and of Christianity, is unselfishness, and that this requires community of goods." Or, " reject Christianity; but they have adopted the communistic idea as their religion devotion to this idea has supported them under the most deplorable poverty and long-continued hardship for twenty years". "I do not think that any of these people can be justly called fanatics." " each have a very positive and deeply rooted religious faith; but none of them can properly be called fanatics, except by a person who holds every body to be a fanatic who believes differently from himself. For none of these people believe that they are alone good or alone right; all admit freely that there is room in the world for various and varying religious beliefs; and that neither wisdom nor righteousness ends with them." -1875 > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, "dhamiltony2k5" > > > > > > <dhamiltony2k5@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spiritual Practice Since Blake: > > > > > > > A lot of spiritual practice has gone on since Blake & it >has > > > > > > > continued or ended in various ways not absolutely stale, > > > > > > > authoritarian and rigid. There has been a progression >which > is > > > > > in the American experience with it. > > > > > > > SRF will likely be in transition again as an aging > > > > > founding generation themselves pass things to a next generation > who > > > > > may not have known the guru personally at all. That time in > > > > > particular seems is really a point where groups are apt to become > > > > > extra or ultra doctrinal and potentially splinter over doctrine. > > > > > Generational moves from the shakti experience of the spiritual > > > > > practice with the founder and the founding generation towards the > > > > > next generation where the reference becomes the word of `what was > > > > > said' and the doctrine of that as that word is re-read, re- played > > > > >and > > > > > re-told by a following generation. It can become dead > > > > >administration > > > > > & and dead doctrine at that point as the shakti of a teaching is > > > > > administratively let out. > > > > Utopian spiritual practice in America is > > > > filled repeatedly and sequentially with variations on this theme. > > > > > > > > > > -Doug in FF > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or, another example: the Society of Believers⦠the Shakers lived > as > > > > spiritual practice ashrams with their at least twice-daily > spiritual > > > > practice of a sitting dhyanna silent meditation (by community > > > > ordinance) retiring to their rooms to sit upright in half hour > silent > > > > meditation, not reading, not talking, not sleeping not idling or > > > > doing stuff otherwise; but, silent inner experience before then > going > > > > to group worship which included more meditation in group, Was the > > > > point of their community and industry, to have the time & the > > > > material resource to do spiritual practice. > > > > > > > > Their communities functioned well this way for this purpose > > > > specifically for some decades after their founding guru, Mother Ann > > > > and the shaker founding generation beyond their deaths. Shakers > > > > lived well as spiritual practice communities doing this specific > > > > practice for some decades after the founding generation. > > > > > > > > In time they went in to doctrinal spin with generational > transition. > > > > After some time they did away with the silent meditation as > community > > > > practice, and then did the shakti dwindle. Shakers in time became > > > > doctrinal as this all happened such that in their time they did not > > > > survive the social and industrial change and circumstances then. > > > > Their shakti experience of the spiritual practice that held them > > > > together dwindled. Times changed simply towards a form of a dying > > > > hollow doctrine & work, work, work. So people left seeking fortune > > > > elsewhere, on their own hook. > > > > > > > > Or, likewise again with the Quaker movement in American history. > > > > Early founded on spiritual practice of group meditations, a silent > > > > Patanjali-like practice on the discernment of bhuti and purusha > > > > though using the nomenclature of the 17th Century. They became > > > > doctrinal in generational sequence in other ways in the face of > rapid > > > > social changes of the 19th and 20th century. They lasted about 300 > > > > years with shakti before evangelical doctrinism broadsided them in > > > > the midst of the rapid social and economic changes of the 19th > > > > century whence their spiritual practice got split off, plowed > asunder > > > > and over-run by doctrinal religionists. So it went. > > > > Yet even today within the Society of Friends (conservative) in the > > > > middle of their form there is a spark of light to be found. > > > > > > > > Likewise it seems in a sequence with European and American > > > > transcendentalism of the 19th century. Spiritual practice of > > > > transcendentalism contending with doctrinal `mistake of the > > > > intellect' religionism in sequence. Seems though that about every > > > > generation someone comes forward and re-lights the way. Hence, in > > > > sequence of spiritual progress a lot has happened since Wm. Blake. > > > > > > > > & this progress is very much part of the American experience. > > > > > > > > -Doug in FF > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > According to William Blake, movements always end like this-- > > > > > stale, > > > > > > authoritarian, rigid. > > > > > > > > > > > > Differently, an exact opposite of this kind of stale doctrinal > > > > fate > > > > > > like of the TMmovement could be: > > > > > > > > > > > > -J.Krishnamurti, 1929 Speech Dissolving his organization, post > > > > 7513 > > > > > > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/FairfieldL ife/message/ 7513 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, Yogananda's group SRF now seems to have survived > > > > the > > > > > > > death of their guru. They do have enduring active spiritual > > > > > > practice > > > > > > > communities facilitating that work. Again last summer they > > > > > > gathered > > > > > > > for an annual week `convocation' near LA for about 10 days of > > > > > long > > > > > > > group meditations with about 4000 people. In their > communities > > > > > > they > > > > > > > do regular long powerful group meditations as part of their > > > > > ongoing > > > > > > > spiritual practice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By a same kind of coin as with TM, it could be as easy to say > > > > > that > > > > > > so > > > > > > > much of the `positivity' of late that the TMorg points to as > > > > > > evidence > > > > > > > is actually due to the SRF 4000 meditators in practice > together > > > > > > last > > > > > > > summer. The powerful lasting influence of a larger n=squared > > > > > > number > > > > > > > by contrast. After all, exponentially 4000 powerful > > > > > SRFmeditators > > > > > > > sitting in practice is a lot more strong than 1700 sleeping > TM- > > > > > > sidhas > > > > > > > in recline in group. Sit with the shakti of a SRF group > > > > > > meditation > > > > > > > if you have not, to judge it. They got shakti that is alive > in > > > > a > > > > > > way > > > > > > > that by contrast the TMmovement group meditations are only a > > > > > > forlorn > > > > > > > disheartened hope over what could have been with their > > > > movement. > > > > > > > -Doug in FF > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Angela Mailander > > > > > > > <mailander111@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > According to William Blake, movements always end like this-- > > > > > > stale, > > > > > > > authoritarian, rigid. They begin with fiery spirit and end > in > > > > > > > ashes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >He describes the process in some detail and at great depth > in > > > > > > > >his "Book of Urizen," which I read when I first got my > > > > children > > > > > > > >involved with TM, and I thought, hmm, here's a test case, > and > > > > it > > > > > > has > > > > > > > been amazing to see how it went down exactly like the man > said > > > > it > > > > > > > would. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >So, perhaps, there is no need to speak of failure. Instead, > > > > we > > > > > > can > > > > > > > realize that this is the natural process for any movement. > > > > This > > > > > > does > > > > > > > not mean that there is anything wrong with the technique. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: "Maharishi Effect" Quantum- > > > > Failure > > > > > > > Essay > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <!-- > > > > #ygrp-mkp{ > > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:14px > 0px;padding:0px 14px;} > > #ygrp-mkp hr{ > > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} > > #ygrp-mkp #hd{ > > color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:bold;line- > height:122%;margin:10px 0px;} > > #ygrp-mkp #ads{ > > margin-bottom:10px;} > > #ygrp-mkp .ad{ > > padding:0 0;} > > #ygrp-mkp .ad a{ > > color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} > > --> > > > > > > > > <!-- > > > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{ > > font-family:Arial;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{ > > margin:10px 0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{ > > margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;} > > --> > > > > > > > > <!-- > > > > #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, > sans-serif;} > > #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} > > #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, > clean, sans-serif;} > > #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;} > > #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;} > > #ygrp-text{ > > font-family:Georgia; > > } > > #ygrp-text p{ > > margin:0 0 1em 0;} > > #ygrp-tpmsgs{ > > font-family:Arial; > > clear:both;} > > #ygrp-vitnav{ > > padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;} > > #ygrp-vitnav a{ > > padding:0 1px;} > > #ygrp-actbar{ > > clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text- > align:right;} > > #ygrp-actbar .left{ > > float:left;white-space:nowrap;} > > .bld{font-weight:bold;} > > #ygrp-grft{ > > font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;} > > #ygrp-ft{ > > font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666; > > padding:5px 0; > > } > > #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{ > > padding-bottom:10px;} > > > > #ygrp-vital{ > > background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;} > > #ygrp-vital #vithd{ > > font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font- weight:bold;color:#333;text- > transform:uppercase;} > > #ygrp-vital ul{ > > padding:0;margin:2px 0;} > > #ygrp-vital ul li{ > > list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee; > > } > > #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{ > > font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text- > align:right;padding-right:.5em;} > > #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{ > > font-weight:bold;} > > #ygrp-vital a{ > > text-decoration:none;} > > > > #ygrp-vital a:hover{ > > text-decoration:underline;} > > > > #ygrp-sponsor #hd{ > > color:#999;font-size:77%;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov{ > > padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{ > > padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{ > > list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{ > > text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #nc{ > > background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;} > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ > > padding:8px 0;} > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ > > font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font- > size:100%;line-height:122%;} > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ > > text-decoration:none;} > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ > > text-decoration:underline;} > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ > > margin:0;} > > o{font-size:0;} > > .MsoNormal{ > > margin:0 0 0 0;} > > #ygrp-text tt{ > > font-size:120%;} > > blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;} > > .replbq{margin:4;} > > --> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > >
