Interestingly enough Milton Erickson the great medical hypnotist, and the one Bandler and Grinder studied, Said that meditation (the state rather than the practice) is the state of no trance.
--- In [email protected], akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I don't know that much about hypnosis but i was surprised and in > intrigued by some of the things that one of the list participants used > to talk about. (was that At_man? I forget who it was). And "whoever" > appeared to make a connection of hynosis and NLP. I looked itnto that > a bit, listen to some Richard Bandler tapes (he is quite a characer) > and surmised there are some things of substance in NLP, probably a lot > more than I had yet uncovered. Long story short, I am open to the > possibility that there are some powerful individual and group methods > to instill suggestions and shape behavior and perceptions in far > deeper ways than is common knowledge. > > Therefore, while I am not making a case that Lenz used some advance > form of group suggestion / manipulation, I am certainly open to that > possibility at this sketchy point in my understanding of what he was > about. Such would explain why some "saw" it and others didn't, and why > the stars appeared to move, when they didn't. > > Personally, I am open to the possibility of levitation and other > siddhis. I am not trying to protect some cherised / limited worldview > by raising "simpler" expalnations of Lenz's "performances". For > example, I tend to believe Yogananda's accounts of levitation. > Regarding Jesus walking on water and all, its certainly a possibility, > but I think there is 2000 years of heavy myth-making and politics in > christianity that I tend to take most christian doctrine with a grain > of salt -- and sometimes mirth. Generally, I think its within human > capability to do sidhi-type things, but I am naturally skeptical about > individual attainments and claims until demonstrated in a context > where illusion and delusion can be ruled out. > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Peter Sutphen > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > People often pull out the "hypnotize" hypothesis without much of an > understanding of hypnosis. They don't do it to understand anything, > but to simply deny what the other person experienced. I don't place > you in this category, Akasha, but there are plenty of others. I doubt > very much, from his description of these encounters with Rama, that > Unc was "hypnotized." > > > > akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In [email protected], Peter Sutphen > > wrote: > > > When someone experiences something that doesn't fit our concepts we > > say, "well of course, you were hypnotized." And that of course > > explains everything. > > > > Who does that? > > > > On the other hand when someone makes a very bold claim, most prudent > > people reserve judgement as they inquire about simpler solutions to > > the claim -- Ocham's Razor seeming to often hold true. > > > > Your post and some of Unc's earlier ones today appear to imply that if > > one does not accept a bold claim at face value, then they are > > deficient, can't reach out beyond their existing concepts and are > > stuck within a worldview inertia. > > > > For example, regarding Lenz, given that: > > - followers saw stars move, but clearly they did not > > > > - not all followers saw the sidhis -- which is odd, its kind of > > hard to miss something that dramatic if it was happening "out there" > > > > - followers possible stared long periods at Lentz, or meditated > > on him, prior to seeing sidhis > > > > - Lentz is alleged to have given som students hallucegens > > > > - Lentz was deceiptful in other realms > > > > it seems prudent to not immediately swallow hook line and sinker a > > bold claim made by some "stranger" before examining other other > > explanations for the "perceptions". > > > > Reseving judgement, in itself, has nothing to do with deficient > > flexibility in conceptual matters. Indeed, guillibility, not lack of > > conceptual flexibility, seems to be a strong trait inherent in many > > TMO long-timers, to a higher degree than the general population, IMO. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Or go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Discover Yahoo! > > Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check > it out! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
