--- TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > > The way that can be spoken is not the Constant
> Way. 
> Enlightenment 
> > > isn't something you can describe, so why try?
> > 
> > It's fun!
> > 
> > ------I can describe it but you won't understand
> or like my 
> description.
> 
> I try to stay out of discussions about "what is
> enlightenment,"
> attempts to *define* it in words.  That, to me, is a
> classic
> waste of time.
> 
> What is not necessarily a waste of time to me is the
> attempt
> to do some kind of justice to one's personal,
> subjective 
> experience of certain steps along the path of
> realizing
> enlightenment.  Those can be interesting for the
> person doing
> it, because trying to express the inexpressible can
> be a means
> of clarifying one's own personal experience.  The
> descriptions
> might also resonate with someone who has had a
> similar exper-
> ience, and who might not have described it in those
> terms.
> 
> An example that springs to mind was the attempt by
> Marek and
> Dr. Pete and others to clarify an aspect of the
> first onset
> of enlightenment, and whether it (enlightenment) can
> be said 
> to "appear."
> 
> That struck me as interesting, because it wasn't
> really an
> attempt to define enlightenment per se, merely one's
> percep-
> tion of an enlightenment experience, in contrast to
> a 
> "normal" perception before enlightenment "appeared"
> (or, as
> was the topic of conversation, before the illusion
> that it
> had not always been present disappeared).
> 
> Unc

The best discussions of enlightenment help clarity
one's own experience. And it is a lot of fun. But many
of these discussions of enlightenment experiences term
into conceptual debates with people spouting-off
concepts and beliefs that are far removed from their
experiencing. It becomes quite useless then.



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