--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <no_reply@> > wrote: > > > However, Jacques Parizeau, a former separatist Premier of Quebec has > very interestingly put that argument on its head. > > His assertion is: yes, it is only fair to expect us to pay our fair > share of the national debt and the federal assets in Quebec upon our > exiting Canada but we expect to be PAID for our share of federal > assets in the other provinces of Canada.
That has occurred to me too and I wrote that part with hesitation. For example, there are huge investments that every state has made to WA DC, and other high density Federal spots. On the other hand, some states have tons of Federal money invested in them -- more than others. Earmarks and pork, along with legitimate investments over the decades are not distributed evenly. Some sort of secession accounting could be developed whereby agreed upon types of national assets would be totaled in each state -- plus a per capita share of national assets. A netting would be done. Some states would get a check for departing -- others a bill. Some of that could extend to national debt -- or federal debt might be moot. It is the residue -- loans to invest in or create national assets. Some "assets" like the war in Iraq are pretty intangible -- or negative (world opinion etc). So there will need to be some judgement calls and consensus on how to split things up. BTW, such a model may have been better for Iraq than the current mess. Three countries. >His reasoning is: the > national debt exists as a result of our partnership in and > participation in Canada since its inception. And the taxes that we, > Quebecers, put into the federal system via federal taxes since then > have contributed to the balance sheet that is Canada which includes > not only all its debts -- which we are willing to pay our fair share > of -- but all its assets as well WHICH INCLUDE NOT ONLY THE FEDERAL > ASSETS IN QUEBEC BUT IN ALL OF CANADA. And if one were to add up all > those federal assets (think tar sands in Alberta, oil in the artic, > gold and uranium here and there, etc.), it is Parizeau's contention > that those assets are worth so much and exceed by such a wide margin > any share of the national debt that it is Quebec that will end up > being paid by Ottawa and not the other way around. > > Can't say I agree with him completely but it is an interesting > argument. > > > > > > > > > My life, liberty, happiness, economic well being, are all literally > > threatened by this long overripe and failing union with "the Red > > States". And my intelligence is daily insulted, an my heart daily > > broken, by their actions -- and I cherish the right at some point to > > disassociate with Nascar nation and all that they stand for. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <no_reply@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Has America become the new Roach Motel of the world? You can > check > > > in > > > > -- but never check out. > > > > > > > > If Alaska wants to go it s own way -- and pay its share for > federal > > > > debt, and buy all federal property in Alaska, and leave .. more > > > power > > > > to them. > > > > > > > > It could be interesting. Being closer to Russia than the US, > they > > > > might form various alliances with Russia -- trade and defense. > > > > > > > > And Alaska is destined to become a major trading center in the > > > coming > > > > decades -- as the North Pole regions continue to melt and > summer > > > > shipping lanes become free and clear (which his happening > > > rapidly.) > > > > > > > > Scientific* American Sept 21 2007 "ice-free summers in the > Arctic > > > may > > > > become the norm in the near future. "At this point, I'd say the > year > > > > 2030 is not unreasonable" for a summer without sea ice in the > > > Arctic, > > > > Serreze says. "Within our lifetimes and certainly within our > > > > children's lifetimes."" > > > > > > > > *Not to be confused with Vodoo Ostrich Science that Shemp > endorses. > > > > > > > > Jun. 27 2008 12:59 PM ET > > > > CTV.ca News Staff > > > > "For the first time in modern history, the North Pole may be > iceless > > > > this summer. Scientists say it's an even bet that sea ice in the > > > > region will completely disappear in the next few months, > perhaps as > > > > soon as August. > > > > > > > > Ice at the North Pole quickly and significantly melted away > last > > > year, > > > > and that may be causing further melting this summer. Scientists > say > > > > the disappearance of long-term and thicker ice formed over the > years > > > > has disappeared. Now, most of the ice that's left is seasonal > ice, > > > > which melts away much more quickly during warm weather. " > > > > > > > > > > > > "The Northwest Passage, a normally ice-locked shortcut between > > > Europe > > > > and Asia, is now passable for the first time in recorded history > > > > reports the European Space Agency. Leif Toudal Pedersen from the > > > > Danish National Space Centre said in the article: 'We have seen > the > > > > ice-covered area drop to just around 3 million sq km which is > about > > > 1 > > > > million sq km less than the previous minima of 2005 and 2006. > There > > > > has been a reduction of the ice cover over the last 10 years of > > > about > > > > 100 000 sq km per year on average, so a drop of 1 million sq km > in > > > > just one year is extreme.'" > > > > > > > > > > > > Shipping companies are already planning to exploit the first > > > > simultaneous opening of the routes since the beginning of the > last > > > Ice > > > > Age 125,000 years ago. The Beluga Group in Germany said it will > send > > > > the first ship through the Northeast Passage, around Russia, > next > > > year > > > > - cutting 4000 miles off the voyage from Germany to Japan. > > > > > > > > The pictures, taken two days ago and gathered using microwave > > > sensors > > > > that penetrate clouds, were published on a website by > scientists at > > > > the University of Bremen in Germany. They show the Northwest > Passage > > > > around Canada opened last weekend and the Northeast Passage was > free > > > > from ice a few days later. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------- > > > > > > > > on secession: > > > > > > > > The group Republic of Texas generated national publicity for its > > > > actions in the late 1990s. There have been repeated attempts to > > > form a > > > > Republic of Cascadia in the Pacific Northwest. The Hawaiian > > > > sovereignty movement has a number of active groupings which > have won > > > > some concessions from the State of Hawaii. Founded in 1983, The > > > > Creator's Rights Party seeks to have one or more states secede > in > > > > order to implement "God's plan for government" and is fielding > > > > political candidates in 2007 around the United States. > > > > > > > > Efforts to organize a continental secession movement have been > > > > initiated since 2004 by members of Second Vermont Republic, > working > > > > with noted decentralist author Kirkpatrick Sale. Their > > > second "radical > > > > consultation" in November of 2004 resulted in a statement of > intent > > > > called The Middlebury Declaration. It also gave rise to the > > > Middlebury > > > > Institute, which is dedicated to the "study of separatism, > > > secession, > > > > and self-determination" and which engages in secessionist > > > organizing. > > > > > > > > In November 2006 the same group sponsored the First North > American > > > > Secessionist Convention which attracted 40 participants from 16 > > > > secessionist organizations and was (erroneously) described as > the > > > > first gathering of secessionists since the Civil War. Delegates > > > > included a broad spectrum from libertarians to socialists to > greens > > > to > > > > Christian conservatives to indigenous peoples activists. Groups > > > > represented included Alaskan Independence Party, Cascadia > > > Independence > > > > Project, Hawaiʻi Nation, The Second Maine Militia, The > Free > > > State > > > > Project, the Republic of New Hampshire, the League of the South, > > > > Christian Exodus, the Second Vermont Republic and the United > > > Republic > > > > of Texas. Delegates created a statement of principles of > secession > > > > which they presented as the Burlington Declaration.[32] The > Second > > > > North American Secessionist Convention in October, 2007, in > > > > Chattanooga, Tennessee received local and national media > attention. > > > [33] > > > > > > > > Additionally some members of the Lakota people of Montana, > Wyoming, > > > > and the Dakota region are also making steps to separate from the > > > > United States.[citation needed] The self-proclaimed Republic of > > > > Lakotah has made a point to say that their actions are not > those of > > > > secession, but rather an assertion of independence of a nation > that > > > > was always sovereign and did not join the United States > willfully. > > > > They note a failure of the United States government in honoring > > > > treaties, and abuse of Native peoples through out its history. A > > > > statement of independence was released as of January 2008, and > the > > > > United States government has not commented on the issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <no_reply@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" <do.rflex@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > <shempmcgurk@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Keep this line of thinking going, Bongo. Because, by > > > implication, > > > > > > > your reasoning can be applied to Barky. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmmm. Let's see. The founder of an organisation that the > > > > husband of > > > > > > > the VP candidate belongs to expressed WORDS of hatred for > > > America. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You left out that the AIP still has secession as a goal and > > > still > > > > > > honors the words of its founder and that Todd Palin has > been a > > > member > > > > > > for 7 years and that Sarah Palin introduced their 2008 > > > convention. > > > > > > > > > > > > Neither one of them has, to my knowledge, ever repudiated > those > > > WORDS > > > > > > nor the basic tenets of the secessionist AIP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And why is discussion and even planning for sucession a bad > > > thing? > > > > > > > > > > Why would repudiation of sucessionism be required or even > lauded? > > > > > > > > > > Is America now like the Berlin Wall -- you need to fence "free > > > > > citizens" in to keep them from staking out their own > destinies? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yet Barky himself -- not his wife -- was intimately > connected > > > with > > > > > > > and worked closely with a non-repentant self-admitted > > > > terrorist...not > > > > > > > someone who expressed, through his freedom of speech, > words of > > > > hatred > > > > > > > of America BUT ACTUALLY BOMBED THE INSTITUTIONS OF THE > UNITED > > > > STATES. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Obama was 8 years old when that happened and never had any > > > association > > > > > > with Ayers in any way until decades later when he > participated > > > in a > > > > > > widely respected education project with a team that > included a > > > fully > > > > > > rehabilitated Ayers and others - all of whom had nothing at > all > > > to do > > > > > > with Ayer's' past. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, genius, keep this sort of thing up. It should bode > well > > > > for the > > > > > > > Obama campaign. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any doubt that Obama's campaign will > successfully > > > weather > > > > > > the admitted last ditch desperate effort by the McCain > people to > > > > > > resort to intense negative less-than-truthful smears. They > > > simply > > > > > > cannot win any other way. > > > > > > > > > > > > Half-truths, misrepresentations, omissions, distortions, > > > exaggerations > > > > > > and flat out lies are what characterize the claims *and > > > integrity* of > > > > > > the right wing freaks and low-life slime trolls like Magoo. > > > > > > > > > > > > After having been burned so badly by the bullshit and lies > of > > > BushCo > > > > > > and its 'culture of corruption' rubber stamp GOP Congress, > the > > > > > > American people appear to be more savvy lately than to > accept > > > more of > > > > > > the same in the form of a negative smear campaign by > > > McCain/Palin and > > > > > > their surrogate noise makers who offer little if anything > that's > > > > > > substantive real positive change for the nation and regular > > > Americans > > > > > > at all - just a continuation of more of the same self- > service > > > and > > > > > > failures. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
