--- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sorry from my side, too. I understand about the German-to- > English thing. Okay. > What I was reacting to was a general attitude > taken so for granted (possibly not in you but in the people > there in that hotel, in that place and time) that no one > sees anything questionable about certain ways of looking > at this sad, sad situation. For example: > > > > "...he got some mental problems and because of that, > > > the Purusha board wanted to sent him away." > > Yeah, that's how a civilized "ideal society" reacts to > someone developing mental problems, all right. Don't > provide any real help for the person, send them away > so that they aren't an embarrassment to the movement. I guess it's not so easy Barry. When a person develops a psychosis, I am not sure about the actual diagnosis, they obviously need some grounding. Purusha is like a intense rounding course. We had doctors who really cared about these people, and put them off rounding etc. For example I once had to take care of another person with a similar problem, to get him grounded, that is see that we he works, is active, and have an eye on him. But the person was very spaced out, it was difficult to do. Sure, the movement could have done more, have put him at a different place, which was more of a working situation than Purusha. But some simply needed medication. I have no idea about rehabilitation, but I think its not so easy. Strangely enough, I heard that the German doctor who was in charge, developed himself sympthons, but of course as a doctor he had some insight himself. He was moved to Seelisberg, were there was a less intrense atmosphere at the time, and I heard he sort of got balanced. I don't know exactly because it happened after I had left. > > > "People with mental problems are usually put away > > > from the higher storeys, because the administration > > > was afraid people would jump out of the window. So > > > they put him into a room at the basement." > > My grandmother also suffered mental problems, in the > American South, during the 30s. Her husband, ashamed > that anyone associated with his family might be "crazy," > had her locked away in one of those snake-pit insane > asylums for forty years, and told my mother and her > brother that she had died. The idea again was to put > the embarrassment out of sight, not to help the person > in any way. Sten was certainly not looked away. He has lived in the basement, but so have lived others there. There were ordinary rooms there. I think that before they decided to send him away, they tried to care about him here, but they didn't inform everybody. > It's the Sem story again. The people "in charge" are > more concerned with tarnishing the image of the fantasy > they live in than they are in any compassionate caring > for someone who is having problems. And they find it > difficult to conceive of the fact that anyone *in* > such an "ideal society" *could* be having problems. Everybody knew that people had such problems, this was never hidden. Like with the other friend I told you about, who's buddy I became for that very reason. I don't know why they kept the suicide secret. Maybe they wanted to preserve his memory, or they didn't want people to get shocked, you know on high rounding. I think they should have informed us, but everybody knew anyway. Btw. Sten was liked by everybody. Everybody was involved, because in the morning, at 7 am, the alarm was ringing, and everybody was asked to come to the flying hall, no exception. People had to make sure there was full attendance, there is the group-structure, the groupleaders had to make sure everybody was there. Nobody knew what was going on. They were making a count. Then it was rumoured that there was a fire in the basement in the night. All this was for identification, and to make sure no one else was missing. Then at the end of it we were told about the tragic accident, and that our friend Sten had died. > So they stick the guy in a basement room full of old > stinky mattresses "for his own good," until they can > send him away and make him someone else's problem. Yeah, but he wasn't looked away. I knew people that liked to be in the basement, who liked the cavelike atmosphere. As I said it was not to lock him away, but a vain attempt to prevent what actually happened. > > I'm sorry, but compassion this is not. Caring this > is not. > > > > "Officially it was only an accident..." > > Officially, it would have been deemed neglect, possibly > criminal neglect, in some countries. > > > > "Stens death was sad, but I don't look down on him > > > in any way." > > No comment. Just the fact that someone could even > *conceive* of looking down on Sten for his actions > says it all. Bad wording from my side. AFAIK everyone liked Sten. Peter Warburthon was saying that he prepared for us the rooms in heaven. I was just trying to point out that what you insinuate was *not* the case. > I'm sorry...it may well be the foreign > language thing, Michael, but this line made me want > to puke. I knew it was bad wording, but it was late, and I just had no idea how else to describe my feeling better. By many suicide is seen as a sin, or some kind bad karmic action. I just wanted to express that we, the people I knew didn't have these feelings about him. > > > Many people die of sad reasons. You are just putting things I > > said out of context and try to cash in on your TM/cult trashing. > > What's wrong in saying this you idiot? You anger me. Forget it. > > It isn't a question of putting TM down. It's a question > of putting a particular cult mindset down. I know, I know. But apart from the possible neglect thing, it was ceratinly NOT the case here. > I've seen the > same mindset in many organizations, including the Catholic > Church (suppressing information about child abuse) and > other spiritual organizations. Sten wasn't abused though. > It's just what happens when > the myth becomes more important than the reality, when the > idea that "we have a panacea that will make everyone in the > world happy" becomes more important than noticing that every- > one, even there at the center of things, ISN'T happy. > > It's the mindset of claiming, to the police and the world, > that this incident was an "accident," rather than dealing > with what it was. I think the idea was more to prevent the shock. My guess at it is, that the people involved in the decission to keep that part secret were more concerned about avoiding the shock of it, I mean the sirenes were on in the morning, we were half a day together in the hall for the count. I am not defending the decission, but I don't attribute the same motivation to it as you do. And frankly speaking, it is this perecption of a 'cult-mindset', and your experience with it elsewhere which maks you see it everywhere. On Purusha, I must say, I found some of the most realistic people of the whole movement. My friends there had no illusions about the things you say. Simply speaking there are some of the most experienced TM people. Many of them where for Maharishi in different countries, many were on global march in India. I simply found these people down to earth and realistic. > It's the absolute anti-enlightenment nature of the whole > thing. Sorry, but it just *screams* to be noticed. And > the way you presented the story, so blasé, I don't know what blase is > as if it was > an episode of bad taste by someone who embarrassed Maha- > rishi by setting himself on fire, just fucking pissed > me off, man. Thats your interpretation. I never spoke about embarresssment or about Maharishi in that context. This was just your phantasy. > I wasn't meaning to be angry at you, and > wasn't. I was angry at the sadness of it all. Still am. No, I was angry at you for your interpretation of my words. You know me long enough. > > Think it through, man. If it had been you who had been > unlucky enough to develop some mental problems and kill > yourself, people would be talking about how they didn't > really "blame you" for creating a commotion, too. I think by now I clarified that particular unfortunate phrase of mine. I knew it wasn't good, but I didn't imagine it could tempt you to such interpretations. 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