On Mar 19, 2009, at 11:24 AM, sparaig wrote:
Yeah, all of what you say is so accurate. That's why the ccireteria
for
24 hour witnessing in advanced TMers includes "witnessing sleep"
for at least a year: there's no physiological correlation to the
state, either
during sleep or in other states either (not).
Well it's either there or it's not. Since it's very easy to detect,
why haven't we heard of it in TM folks? Sounds like another sleight
of hand and a diversion to me.
Well, different techniquesw lead to different physiological states.
It's either the shaksi during sleep or it's not. Many differing
techniques lead to the state. In fact, perhaps it's a sleep
disturbance. If it's not actual yogic sleep then they should start
calling it Maharishi Witnessing® instead, so we know it's just
something they're, once again, making up.
MMY's interpretation of 'witnessing sleep" seems to be supported
by research on TM. I wouldn't be surprised if the more common
interpretation of witnessing sleep isn't skupported by research
on the techniques meant to induce it.
Again, redefinition needs to be seen for what it is: an attempt to
deceive.
My own intuition: Spontaneity implies originality. The fact
that esoteric techniques lead to esoteric states isn't surprising.
Well that's just it, yogic sleep isn't that esoteric, nor or the
techniques used. It's just not common to be conscious during sleep
phases nor is it common to be able to only sleep a couple of hours,
or to even show a trend in that direction.
The fact that a simple technique can lead to the same description
of a state, even if the state itself is different physiologically,
implies that the simpler technique leads to the originally
described state.
YMMV of course
That's just it. If TMers aren't having any of the known traditional
benefits, then we're clearly speaking of something different.
Maharishi Witnessing®. For example, many TMers have described
"witnessing deep sleep" as a very negative experience (more like a
sleep disorder), whereas yogic sleep is not only very pleasurable,
it's incredibly rejuvenating, unlike anything normally experienced
with "mundane" sleep. Anecdotal reports of people in the domes where
TM/TMSP is extensively practiced seem to indicate that sleep
disturbances are somewhat common, to the point where people come to
the domes to sleep! I strongly suspect what the Maharishi Witnessing®
phenomenon actually is is a form a meditative disorder caused by vata
derangement--which is not a good sign.
Given that the "Maharishi sleeps only
a few hours a night" rumor has been shown to be just a TB myth,
Actually, I believe that Rick explained that MMY's sleeping
schedule was all over the place. He was known to sleep for a few
hours at a time AND could also sleep for longer periods.
Of coruse, we all hear what we want to hear.
I'd love to hear that Maharishi could sleep for an hour or two and be
fine. But first hand accounts from inside circle people tells a
different story. It's another myth.
I had not heard Rick's description.
It is certainly perilous to conclude things about alpha.
The best the TM researchers can actually do is note the
correlation between TM practice and various physiological
states.
Whether or not these states are significant is another
matter of course.
The same holds true of the physiological correlates of
any other meditation technique as well, don't you agree?
I don't know of any of meditative traditions that actually are making
a big deal about alpha waves.
I'd tend to agree with neuroscientists in that mental health and
spiritual health are about brain integration. The EEG signature of
such integration is gamma waves persisting inside and outside of
meditation. This view is encouraged by research that shows we can
grown new neurons--primarily in the areas which allow integration.
Therefore gamma synchrony may be the mechanism behind integrative
brain functioning and higher states of consciousness.
