Vaj, In reading your response, I think we actually have similar, or at least complimentary views. From your original post I was not sure where you were coming from, thus my probing.
You bring up some good points. More detailed response later. --- In [email protected], Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Jul 13, 2005, at 9:22 PM, akasha_108 wrote: > > > --- In [email protected], Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >> On Jul 13, 2005, at 6:32 PM, akasha_108 wrote: > >> > >>> A western christian telling a muslim that they have "embraced a > > false theology and a god" does not solve ANYTHING. Just as white civil > > rights workers in the early 60's were bright and educated > > students who, if they wished, could be productive and prosperous > > members of suburban America. But they were shocked and dismayed at the > > state of civil rights in the south, were pissed off, and risked > > careers, life and limb to do something about it. Why is it so hard to > > imagine idealistic muslims doing the same. > >> > >> But it does highlight one particular point that is deliberately > >> avoided > > due to political correctness and absolutely avoided by all politicians > > and that is that the basis of this IS religious. A good Muslim has a > > number of things they are required to do, an one of those is Jihad. > > ...Jihad can mean if you I or anyone else says anything deemed > > blasphemous--we can be killed and it is perfectly lawful! > > > > Your point is ambiguous to me. > > > > "Can" is the operative word. I hope you are not saying all muslims > > must kill you. > > No I seriously doubt all Muslims would want to kill you. As I mentioned > there are a range of ideas on what Jihad means. An important question I > had in discussions with both Muslims and Sufis was 'what would the > majority support?' In other words your average Muslim most certainly > would not want to kill someone for blasphemy--but would the majority > support someone else doing it? You'd be surprised at the answers out > there. > > I remember my own shock--largely due to the PC images the media was > feeding us--when I found out that there were huge celebrations across > Saudia Arabia and the Arab world after 9/11. Anyone who had a pig > slaughtered it. Whole cities celebrated death. I had to struggle to put > my mind around that. I couldn't recall much like that elsewhere. And > none of it was covered in the mainstream media (till 60 Minutes did > their article). > > > That extremity of jihad interpretations is far from the > > mainstream position of muslims world wide. As I remeber, jihad means > > struggle. it has many levels of application. Struggle against sin is a > > common one. > > It is--but even the most conservative must consider Jihad an important > item. For some that might mean conversion a la Christian style > conversion, for others it might means invasion. For another it might > mean following the Quaranic injunction to 'lay and wait for the > infidel' and to immigrate to another country and just lay and wait. > Different people lay and wait for different things. > > > > > So if you believe (I hope not) that ALL muslims must kill you if > > you do ANYthing that is deemed against qu'aranic law, then .. well its > > hard to comment on such a mindset. > > No, see the above. The pint is, Jihad is a basic tenet and that a > majoirty of Muslim will support and celebrate much more than we've been > led to believe. > > My first reality check on this was the Navy's ex-liason to the Saudi > Royal family who is a personal friend. He lived in Saudi Arabia for > many years and shared both his love of the culture and the utter > horrors. And as a navy Admiral he was privy to a lot of material I only > later found out knowing what to look for. > > > > > > >> That's what happened to that > >> descendent of Van Gogh who did the movie on abuse of Islamic women: > > he was stabbed in the heart in public and his throat slit. Perfectly > > legal because he was a blasphemer. > > > > So I hope youare not saying that this criminal behavior is supported > > by and would also be enacted by most muslims. We can both paint any > > number of odd christian or jewish events. or Hindu events. Does the > > fact that David Koresh or Rev Jones did what they did mean in any way > > many or all christians support such and would do the same? > > It is enacted by a minority, but supported by far more than I would > have suspected. > > > > >> To another Jihad means you have to convert > >> people--some think that means the whole world must be converted and it > >> their job to see that this is done--some feel that means "convert or > >> die". > > > > So many have died due to christian evangelism. I see islam and muslims > > as being quite less evangelical than christians. A muslim hss never > > tried to convert me. And I have actually sought out learning asbout > > Islam from them. > > It's true, Christianity is and has been horribly barbaric. > > I've also talked to a fairly large swath of Muslims and also Sufis, > Hindus and Buddhists. > > > > >> This is nothing new, this has been happening since Islam started. > >> Remember the Sabians? > > > > Your point is unclear. Extreme christian evangelicism has been > > happening since 1 AD. Its sad. Its scary, but its not mainsteam > > christianity (though fundamentalist christianity is growing and is > > scary). > > Reading about the Sabians was a mindfuck to come across, as it was > something that happened a long time ago but was so chillingly relevant > today. Whole towns being threatened with extermination if they did not > convert. The bizarre aside to that is that the remaining Neoplatonic > Sabian heirs are, as we speak being assassinated and murdered in > Iraq--they are considered Kaffirs. It will be amazing if this unique > religion survives. I wrote the secretary of state and left messages on > his voice mail to support immigration of these people to the US as > instability caused by the US threatened to assure there utter > destruction. > > > > >> All the places Islam has spread has one thing in common--it is part > > of a vast area of the planet where years ago huge climactic shifts > > caused deserts. > > > > Well, I guess you have never been to Indonesia. Or southern > > Phillipines. Or Malaysia. Or much or southern coastal Africa. Or read > > much. > > Yes, indeed I have. If you get a chance, check out > http://www.orgonelab.org/saharasia.htm > > Look at the maps. It's certainly not just Muslims, but it is a shocking > picture. This was all pre-9/11 research. > > > > >> Starvation ensued. A lifestyle arose from this highly > >> (muscular) armored seed culture totally at odds with their own > >> life-current. This is what starvation does to a human, but it's also > >> what happens when that imprint becomes part of human society and their > >> taboos, rituals and practices. These same areas are where male and > >> female genital mutilation was born and is still practiced. Also tight > >> swaddling of children to prevent crying, etc., binding of the skull, > >> etc. > >> > >> Thus there is a bioenergetic core and cause to this IMO. This type of > >> movement thrives on prana depleted areas. > > > > > > Wow, again I hope you are not extrapolating this stuff to all muslims. > > I feel a lot of wierd hate vibes in your writing. I hope I am mis > > interpreting it. > > It sounds like you might be. I've been in a position to talk to a lot > of people on this--from Jewish friends in Europe who've been affected > to numerous scholars, Muslims, etc. I looked at India real close and > the huge genocide that had taken place there (75 million people or > more). I talked to the commander of ground troops in Bosnia who has > also recently returned from Afghanistan. I simply have made a point to > not accept answers for their "feel good" qualities or any need to be > politically correct. > > I wanted to know the big picture. > > > Do you know much about islamic history. The state of islamic culture > > in 800-1400 or so? It lead the world. Have you visited the mosques and > > palaces in india. The Taj Mahal? All Islamic architect ure. Its > > fabulous, and clearly from a deep culture of art and beauty. > > Yes I am fairly familiar with it as it overlapped a lot of research I > and my fellow researchers have worked on over the years. I've had a lot > of exposure to it, esp. in regards to architecture. > > You do realize that much innovation did come after the Indian invasion > and we now know a lot was transmitted from China. The Arabs were great > transmitters of innovation and occasionally innovators themselves. For > example the city of Baghdad was actually designed by Indian architects. > There were even Sanskrit universities in Mesopotamia. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
