--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jst...@...> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "yifuxero" <yifuxero@> wrote: > <snip> > > > At the end of the chapter, he mentions experiments which > > refuted Hagelin's (SU(5) > > I addressed this in my post to Hugo. Hagelin's Flipped > SU(5) has not been refuted and remains a leading GUT > candidate.
Fraid I may not have read that Judy, I don't get the chance to log in everyday. But I remember remarking recently that I wasn't sure if the demolition of the SU5 theory included Hagelins contribution because the wikipedia page, which is the only place I could find it, doesn't mention anything of it. I haven't read the quantum gods book yet as Amazon seem to be having trouble getting me a copy. Maybe the Higgs boson is interfering with parcel delivery too. But the trouble with the conclusions page of the truth about TM article is that all of the references are from TM scientists. Which isn't surprising as the mystic side of QP has been dropped by pretty much everyone. As I always say, the only people who put consciousness and QP in the same sentence are trying to sell you something. Which doesn't mean it's nonsense just that we've moved on from thinking that the spooky possibilities that come with QP are best explained this way. Last time I managed to get one of the phycisists I know to even discuss it all he would say was "It's a mystery but why make it a bigger mystery than it needs to be?" Getting the average physicist even that far takes some doing, the whole mystic bit is overdone to the point of tedium by the 'what the bleep' crowd and people get weary of having to explain things they last considered in first year at uni. If there is truth in it why do most physicists not believe it? Some utterly reject the possibility, some are agnostic. Truth is the TMers have a belief they want to see validated. What happens to the CasUF argument if the quantum computing lab at Oxford build a QC capable of telling us what happens at the fundamental level? It disappears and is never heard from again that's what. They are on the way with that little project and David Deutsch, who is running the show, dismisses CasUF most unequivocally. I explained the TM position on consciousness and QP to this guy I know and he had fear creeping over his face because he thought he'd have to humour me when he thinks it's all a load of crap. When I explained I thought that the TM beliefs were an *analogy* of QP he was visibly relieved because "It's not even a good analogy, you can't experience the unified field in your head, it just doesn't work like that!" Next time I see him I'll press for a better explanation because you don't find this stuff in modern physics books, if you're lucky you'll get is a swift explanation of why people *used* to think consciousness was a contributory factor in QP but don't anymore. Sometimes you'll get an admission that nobody really knows yet. But most physicists just keep working without worrying about it as it will all sort itself out in the end. And this is where the TMO take a sidestep away from reality as "the end" for the TMO is that the universe is micromanaged by "nature" from a level of pure intelligence and that we can tap into that and influence the world and each other. It's not just that they have a belief about the nature of fundamental particles it's a full on religion with devas, yagyas, astrology etc. This is what they are all about and it's what they are selling. Are they ever going to convince the world? I doubt it. I've explained to my physics pals the TM beliefs on preventing crime, creating coherence at a distance in other peoples brains, even in preventing earthquakes and we are unanimous in that it's one of the strangest (and funniest) ideas on the market at the moment and none of them believed a word of it, indeed thought it the most unlikely thing they'd heard for a long time. Actually, we got onto David Icke from there who you might think is a contender in the bizarre idea stakes, but I think giant shape-shifting lizards are several orders more normal from the idea that TM prevents earthquakes. Before anyone says that is the extreme end of TM beliefs, you can't have the Maharishi effect without it because it's the same thing, same theory, same physics, same effect. I'm sure someone in the TMO could say that I don't understand their position well enough to comment but I've been at TM a while and I think I've got a pretty good grip of the ideas. I think that finding out whether Hagelins flipped SU5 has actually been refuted should be my task for the week as a lot of the argument seems to rest on it.
