i agree with your perspectives somewhat and appreciate your thoughtful
response, i too am comfortable with my relationship to my experiences with tm,
tmo and maharishi etc. in the way that i own my own involvement
psychologically, i have been a weak human at times for better or worse, and
i see it all as a learning experience -albeit i was abused. i do use the
programs in a self regulated way that is better than what i was taught by
maharishi. i researched vedic literature and found flaws with his teachings
and contradictions with the vedic tradition. perhaps maharishi chose to break
with vedic tradition to be able to exploit it and play out his own ego. i
could be a sucker and a fool as much as anyone and i might abuse if given the
chance like any other person. tmo however claims that maharishi was beyond
mistakes and above law or rather was also the perfect natural law beyond man
made law. that makes him and his organization immune? i understand that law
is a social structure meant to protect people from abusing each other, as a
means to prevent further abuse and punish things like fraud and exploitation.
i am held accountable under law for transgressions against law if say if i
speed or profit from a scam, of course only if i get caught. maharishi moved
to holland to avoid getting caught. i don't feel victimized per-say, just
duped and i have a problem with any lying that results in financial gain for
some and loss for others, for harm and loss done or caused with ulterior
motive or otherwise. i believe in punishment where it is due and retribution,
justice. i think it is fraud to make unsubstantiated claims for profit. maybe
consumers are too responsible and unprotected from this kind of situation in
our society, just add a disclaimer to your claims and let the ignorant become
stupid for your gain, they are stupid anyway!? well i think a citizen can sue
in court and i wonder if a lot of people would join together in a suit. tmo in
my opinion has abused many and deserves to be checked and punished by many, by
law. nature already punished maharishi with disease and failure and an
untimely death, and what is wrong with us serving justice with a suit? i
think the student loan system in general reflects our corrupt economic system
and profits bankers and wealthy at the expense of the general population.
maharishi seems to have justified exploitation for his touted superior cause
like many before him and used this student system to the fullest. i think
maharishi must have the record for bailouts as none of his programs and claims
ever worked yet people gave him billions. aren't tm, tmo and mum promoting
religious beliefs in the name of science -at least according to some previous
court cases. i owe a ton of money in student loans and attended mum for eight
years before i realized i was living like a religious zealot. in retrospect i
would have never attended mum or learned tm if it it wasn't promoted and
couched in the context of science. am i a fool who bought a bait and switch
hindu paradigm that had an official yet disclaimed science tag on it!? isn't
it true that maharishi teaches tm teachers to lie to learners for their own
good about the puja etc. well how about putting complaints to action through
law and perhaps reforming the tmo, purification, progress anyone.
--- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" <curtisdeltabl...@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "nadarrombus" <royboyunity@> wrote:
>
> > i was wondering if anyone likes the idea of a collective lawsuit against
> > the tmo
>
> SNIP
>
> I doubt your student loans are held by MUM. They are probably financed by an
> outside agency who deserves their money whether you are second guessing your
> choices or not.
>
> The movement is a lawsuit savvy foe in the courtroom. If you go down that
> road be prepared to devoting years of your life to it. Is that really how
> you want to spend your next few years?
>
> And the outcome is highly uncertain without proven physical injury. And this
> is a good thing. We don't want a society where you can shut down a
> university because of spreading some bullshit ideas. Do your homework on the
> previous cases and you will see what you would be stepping into. Some even
> got some money after YEARS of work. It is a game played between lawyers in
> their home court and your life is what gets expended.
>
> Personally, when I decided I no longer bought Maharishi's teaching I didn't
> consider suing them for my "lost" years. Under consideration I realized that
> it was a mixed bag of good and bad. There was plenty of bullshittery, but
> there was also a unique opportunity to live a seriously alternative
> lifestyle. And getting out involves getting to review your whole belief
> system is a detail and at a core identity level that adults rarely are forced
> to do. I am not the victim of Maharishi's teaching, I am a graduate. And the
> experiences I had with him make me uniquely me. Get out the old Ben Franklin
> list of pros and cons on what you have learned, I'll bet you will be
> surprised how much ends up on the good side. And that includes where you are
> now drawing your bullshit lines on beliefs. Knowing how important that
> personal line is to your life is one of the biggest pros, even if you gained
> it in reaction to Maharishi's teaching.
>
> So ask what is your real motivation here? If it is money that is a lottery
> ticket chance you will see any in any reasonable proportion to the time you
> will put into it.
>
> Is it to stop what you consider a bad thing? The movement is doing a pretty
> good job of dying out all on its own. The core group of believers who bought
> in years ago aren't going to consider leaving now, why should they? They
> like it. And with the scant numbers starting these days don't worry about
> the future. The hay day is over, Maharishi is dead.
>
> Is it for payback? You have to find your own perspective on what this might
> mean. You are never going to budge the higher ups, you are going to
> strengthen them against a common foe. It will all be played out in a sterile
> courtroom full of bored people. You will never get your Perry Mason moment.
>
> When I left the movement and was vocal about my reasons I also knew that any
> involvement in a suit would reduce all my criticisms to "he did it for the
> money." If you have an insight about your experience with Maharishi's system
> share it, it is a valuable resource to others. You may find that expressing
> your own point of view now gives you the kind of empowering healing you are
> seeking from a lawsuit. Tell us what you learned. Your life is 10% what
> happened to you in the movement and 90% what you do with it to create the
> life you want now.
>
> I guess this topic really brought up a lot for me about how I evaluate my
> personal history with the movement and it has taken years to feel completely
> comfortable with it all. Good luck on your own personal journey.
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > i was wondering if anyone likes the idea of a collective lawsuit against
> > the tmo to reclaim money spent on the programs and the university. there
> > seems to be plenty of evidence that the tmo has always kept secrets, lied,
> > to sell its products ie. its non religious- the puja, supernatural
> > powers-nothing, science-more like seance, etc etc..... plus we could shut
> > down the university and free everyone of their student loan debts to mum.
> > --- In [email protected], "Joe" <geezerfreak@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In [email protected], "Hugo" <fintlewoodlewix@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > > > <snip>
> > > > > > > But here's where the "science" comes in. Several times
> > > > > > > on this forum I have suggested an experiment that,
> > > > > > > given my last-time-I-studied-it-back-in-high-school
> > > > > > > knowledge of physics, would prove one way or another
> > > > > > > whether the "flying" in Yogic Flying is due to anything
> > > > > > > other than muscle exertion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Except that it would be an attempt to disprove a straw
> > > > > > man, which isn't very scientific.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Nobody denies muscular exertion is involved, at least
> > > > > > these days.
> > > > >
> > > > > Don't they? How are we supposed to progress from stage 1
> > > > > (hopping) to stage 2 (floating) if some sort of extra
> > > > > gravity defying process isn't involved?
> > > >
> > > > They aren't claiming anybody's doing anything but
> > > > hopping yet.
> > >
> > > So why not call it "yogic hopping"? That would be truthful. Calling it
> > > "yogic flying" is not.
> > >
> > > You believe it is an entirely involuntary action, right? How do you
> > > explain in the film that all begin hopping together, all know where the
> > > corner of the foam pad is, and all start hopping when the camera happens
> > > to be filming?
> > >
> > > I was a hopper for several years. It was obvious to me towards the end of
> > > that time that the biggest thing going on in those rooms was group think
> > > and group action. Now that was what....30 years ago. Nothing has changed.
> > > Nothing. Same old hopping, albeit with a few more strained knees and
> > > backs.
> > >
> > > This isn't "yogic flying". It's the yogic equivalent of waiting for godot.
> > >
> >
>
