Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: new coronation photos- Many!

[Llundrub]

A quality piece of writing, and you even managed in this intellectual dissertation to say 'fuck' at least once!   ---Thanks. Need something to liven up otherwise merely dull thinking. I forgot who said it, that poetry is meaning which needs feet to walk. First, how are you defining a system? Given that we live in an orderly universe (galaxies in order, planets in orbit, etc.), there are an infinite number of interconnected systems. So it is impossible to truly isolate one system from another. There is always a 'bleed over' effect.   ---I'm trying for the standard scientific model, which is usually a vacuum with some specific objective quantifiable object.  Of course a true vacuum is impossible, yet for many experiments relevant parameters can be obtained well enough for making objectively verifiable results which can be reproduced.    In the case of thermodynamics one is discussing entropy and orderliness of particles in a closed system. That is, a system where the amount of particles remains the same, no more entering the vacuum and no more exiting.   In the case of consciousness however, people are born and dying, people are moving in and out of a place, so no 'particle' requirement has been met to reproduce an experiment with controlled conditions.    Therefore there can't be coherence in the closed sytem, as based upon the thermodynamics analogy.   So can there be coherence in an open system?  Not according to the thermodynamics models.   Of course to explain this discrepancy the Movement 'scientists' have elaborated a specious superconductivity analogy where if the conditions are met so that particle coherence is met then superconductivity results, and it has superior qualities such as defiance of gravity, where a superconductive liquid climbs the container walls and conservation of momentum and energy so that a charge is maintained without resistance and so perpetually without loss of strength or momentum.    But again these symptoms of superconductivity are based on a closed system.    So a scientific human model for experiment needs very rigorous standards which so far haven't been met. Because while it seems improbable,  it is nonetheless possible that one completely incoherent particle, or the open system itself  in an open system can waylay all attempted ordering of the system.    Entropy says that in a closed environment with no controls particles will not distribute evenly so clusters of particles can group at some ends of the container and not at other ends, but through cooling them they tend to distribute evenly.     The whole point is some closed group is needed. Like some crazy guy needs to be placed in a group of 20 rounding sidhas or something like that, for a duration of time, and then the crazy guy needs to be studied for signs of improvement. The person need not meditate or have contact with the sidhas.  But the group and the environment must be closed, and that means no extraneous imput of any sort because humans are complex particles, if you will.  And so as such their systems number with their senses and any open sense can be an open system and so negate the analogous thermodynamic convention for measurement.   Then you say, "I cannot see any scenario, and cannot understand any situation where perception of life can be improved which does not entail concurrent aculturalization to foreign conceptual frames of reference." I agree, yet who says we have to be aware when our aculturalization to something previously unknown occurs? It is like feeling tense, and then walking into a perfumed garden. The garden, whether we accept it or not, whether we understand it or are aware of its direct influence, changes us. There is not much thought or ego involved in the process. It just happens.     ----I like this idea, and it is a good counter to my whole argument. Of course it posits the mysterious and paraphysical dynamics of magical operations as its basis, which is fine, but you must understand that it is the thinking of religion or magic or mysticism and not of duplicable science.  So what?  Of course, so what? Especially if it works.   I would have preferred if the TMO had instead of thermodynamic analogies, utilized some other analogy which would have made a case for a superfluid energizing of the environment through soma production. For instance, instead of needing to maintain a group of 1/4 1% of sidhas somewhere all that needed to be met was that number for the production of soma for a length of time at which point it becomes permanent in the environment and supportive of future coherence, rather than just as soon as the group quits a locale it also stops manifesting positive qualities. The reason I would have preferred this nodel is that at least it supposes some supraphysical marker which someday when the means are investigatable could be studied.   But in the Movement models of collective consciousness and coherence no experiment can be made which does not have human guinea pigs, and since evven a human mind is an open system, nobody can say that practicing TM in  groups acheives the thermodynamic markers for scientific and reproducible results. While 99% of participants practicing TM might be transcending the other 1% may merely be lost in the ozone.  Moreover that 1% might be snoring and disturbing the other 99% which means some ethical considerations must be met for the study and ethical considerations again are religious and not scientific.  The microscope has no morals.   Either way, without some quantifiable markers there will never be any sort of agreement, again, in spite of the Movement's best attempts at objectivity, religion and magical thinking will win the day. The problem being that if TM works in increasing all the variables for spontaneous positivity in the environment, even then, still, nobody will acknowledge that because for such an abstract quantification no actual predictions can be made.  Beyond heaven or doom.  So again, religion, not science. I don't believe that we must understand something or accept it to be forever changed by it. Your question regarding the practice of TM being able to bring about a macro effect of world enlightenment through its practice? Who knows. Does it work? Will it work? Is it working?    My real point still is, is TM the key and the rest of the TMO just window dressing to provide a more closed system for reproduction of ideal test conditions? Produced either conventionally, or intuitively, or unconsciously? I gess we'll know Thursday night whether Sat Yuga says Woohaa, or whether Kali Yuga says, Got you too Hah Hah.   Frankly, if Kali Yuga gave us Jimi Hendrix and all Sat Yuga gave us was the Vedic chants then I guess you know where I'll be spending the next 425,000.     To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web.    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]    Your use of Yahoo! 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