--- In [email protected], tartbrain <no_re...@...> wrote: > > > > --- In [email protected], "yifuxero" <yifuxero@> wrote: > > > > OK,...an interesting intersection with the teachings of Sant Mat, for > > example Kirpal Singh. He urges people to "die daily", and "rise above > > bodily consciousness", i.e. the physical body. Then to transcend while the > > subtle body is beyond the physical. > > ... > > But beyond that, the Paths diverge since the official TM teachings are that > > there's no more relative existence for the Enlightened, after death. > > In Sant Mat otoh, the emphasis is on eternal "Soul awareness" - the Soul > > being the subtle bodies or simply the Soul. There's no provision for > > extinction of the Soul in Sant Mat.Some say it lives forever. > > I can't believe that people are duped by the Nihilistic teachings of MMY: > > that we spend countless eons attempting to get Enlightened, only to have it > > all dissolve when the goal is attained. > > So you best not transcend -- its such a drag -- it all dissolves when the > goal is obtained. Worse yet, UC/BC everything dissolves even while engaged. > Total engrossment in the physical is much better. (particularly if she's > blonde, some might say) >
I asked Maharishi at TTC [Estes Park, CO] if when we reach UC are we then like Krishna. He answered very quickly saying, "No, that would require a series of incarnations into bodies finer than the gross physical." He then quickly changed the subject and said nothing further about it. To further make the point that dropping the body in 'enlightenment' doesn't mean that one completely dissolves, here's a story that Brahmachari Satyanand told of his experience after the death of Guru Dev: --Brahmachari 'Swami' Satyanand speaking c1967 about Guru Dev's 'nirvana'-- 'When in 1953 Guru Dev left this mortal frame and attained nirvana I was at Benares, another place of pilgrimage for Hindus, and at that moment I was staying in the ashram of Guru Dev. Everybody knew that I am very attached to Guru Dev and devoted to Guru Dev, and then news came to Benares that Guru Dev has attained nirvana. I was sitting somewhere with a group of my friends and the news was relayed there. When my friends heard that Guru Dev was no more they were very anxious about me and when they conveyed that news, they were rather alert to appraise whatever reaction is and what happened, I simply, when I heard that news I became very sad, very sorry and I just kept my head on the table before me. And all of them were very anxious what will become of me. But soon after, while I was very morose, sorrow, sad, entire world was empty for me and I did not understand what to do without Guru Dev, just a half a minute or two seconds after, a flash came and it appeared to me that Guru Dev was scolding me; "What a fool you are! You have been with me for all these many months and years, and you heard my discourses too. Is it a moment of feeling sorry? Why should you be sorry today? And you think that I am gone, where am I gone? "Till now whenever you wanted to meet me, you had, you had to come to the place where I was, and today when I have attained nirvana, I am everywhere, I am omnipresent. Where have I gone? "Very foolish for you to mourn on this occasion. I am with you, here, there, everywhere. Why should you be sorry?" And the moment this flash came, my face became very brilliant, I became very cheerful. And when I raised my head, my friends who were standing there, very anxious and held in suspense, they were upset to see my brilliant and cheerful face. And then they said, "What has happened to you?" I said, "No you can't understand, nothing has happened to me, I am alright, now let me go back to the ashram and make the necessary arrangements."' From: http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/Satyanand.htm = = = = > However, I am not sure M. was saying its All Brahman being Brahman after the > body drops. He talked of no rebirth. Rebirth of the physical body, that is -- > which he sort of glossed over. Within this framework, the subtle body could > keep evolving, more and more. > > He and others have said Indra and all the celestial beings are simple > personalities that is holding the office of Indra. Like the Presidency. Bush > and Obama were presidents -- they were not the Presidency -- the office that > goes on and on. > > Do you think the force that holds the whole universe together, that "holds > relative and absolute together" (he said this of Indra) was some unrealized > person (in physical body terms), who would step it up (man it up) to become a > physical human? If so, then where do the Indra type office holding souls come > from? Its much more plausible that subtle bodies keep evolving and become > devas, higher an higher -- until one takes the office of Indra or others. > Probably whole universes behind that. like Indra inhabits only the first 7 > dimensions o string theory, not all twelve. > > Of course many would scoff at any such talk of Indras, subtle bodies, and > life after the body drops. But as a logical construct it works as a plausible > outcome. And poetically Indra is magnificent. Spiritually, just putting your > attention on that brings something. > > > > > --- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > I'd be more interested in the followup tape, in which > > > he compares what he thought would happen with what > > > really happened. > > > > > > Wouldn't it be a hoot if such a tape miraculously > > > appeared, and it was blank? :-) > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Rick Archer" <rick@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Transcribed by: Jörg Schenk > > > > > > > > Death in Unity > > > > > > > > Squaw Valley, 1968 tape 14 > > > > > > > > MAHARISHI: ...When an ordinary man leaves his body it's a very great > > > > pain. When a realized man leaves the body it's the experience of > > > > greatest happiness-bliss. Why? Because the state of enlightenment > > > > comes by many times becoming unaware of the body. Metabolic rate comes > > > > to nil. Million times the metabolic state has come to nil. > > > > > > > > And in that state what we had experienced? Bliss consciousness-during > > > > meditation. Because the state of enlightenment is the result of > > > > millions of times getting to that time of pure awareness, > > > > transcendental, that means physically the body comes to that > > > > restfulness, comes to that restfulness, comes to that restfulness. > > > > .... > > > > > > > > During meditation the mind becomes finer and finer and finer, and then > > > > disassociates itself with the body. Prana also-that is breath-becomes > > > > finer and finer and finer and finer, and then eventually in the > > > > transcendental consciousness, disassociates itself with the body. So, > > > > senses: based on the finer aspect of the senses start function finer > > > > finer finer, finest aspect of the senses start functioning. And then > > > > the senses remain behind, the area of the senses remains behind and > > > > they are no more in the transcendental awareness. > > > > > > > > What is happening during that: the prana is disassociating itself from > > > > the body, and the mind disassociates itself from the body, senses > > > > disassociating themselves from the body. All this disassociation of > > > > the subtle body, or the inner man, has been a habit. And the > > > > experience has been: when all these disassociate from the body, then > > > > bliss consciousness is the direct experience. > > > > > > > > And therefore, as long as the machinery is functioning with the > > > > disassociation of these subtle aspects, the experience is that of pure > > > > consciousness or bliss consciousness. So the last experience that the > > > > body can give will be of bliss consciousness when the subtle body > > > > starts disassociating itself and drops off. This is the time of death. > > > > So the death of a enlightened man is just the same phenomenon of > > > > transcending and gaining transcendental consciousness. > > > > > > > > Whereas in the case of others who have not experienced the inner man's > > > > disassociation from the body �" who have never experienced that �" > > > > then > > > > it is a very terrible thing for the eyesight to disassociate itself > > > > from the eyes. It's a very terrible thing for the sense of touch to > > > > disassociate itself from the hands. Like that. Very terrible > > > > experience of pain. Very great. For the sense of hearing to > > > > disassociate itself from the ears, from the whole machinery. > > > > > > > > You can imagine how a man cries if his house is not insured > > > > [laughter]. If he is not hooked to safety, not insured. Then if the > > > > house begins to fall, and burns away. He cries out and sees that oh, > > > > what beautiful ceiling I made, with such great labor and such great > > > > love and this and this, and now it is falling off and falling off and > > > > falling off. Everything that he built so dearly and with such great > > > > love and joy and labor-all that is falling off. He starts crying at > > > > the fall of everything. Such a great pain at the time of death �" for > > > > someone who has not known how to disassociate himself from his body. > > > > > > > > And in TM, every time we get disassociated from the body, and that > > > > time the experience is bliss consciousness. Great experience. It's > > > > like someone whose insurance is much greater than the value of the > > > > house [laughter]. When it begins to burn, he puts a little more petrol > > > > there [laughter]. He enjoys that. Because it is hooked to safety. So > > > > it's no loss. > > > > > > > > So the experience of death of an enlightened man, is the same > > > > experience of transcending when we meditate. So that is bliss to the > > > > enlightened and the greatest suffering to the ignorant. This is the > > > > difference. And that's why he's always ready to die. Doesn't matter > > > > what. Always ready to die means: he is not ready to DIE, but he > > > > doesn't mind dying anytime. He's awaiting death... > > > > > > > > > > > > End of Quote__________ > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paul`s first letter to the Corinthians he says in chapter 15, verse > > > > 31: > > > > > > > > "Every day do I die...." Young's Literal translation > > > > > > > > "I die every day...." New International version. > > > > > > > > "I die daily...." King James version > > > > > > > > "Daily I die...." Darby version > > > > > > > > "Each day I die...." Wycliffe version > > > > > > > > In a German version it is `I am dying each day` > > > > > > > > That would make sense and fit very well with the above quote. One > > > > might consider it as an indicator of regular transcending �" just a > > > > thought. > > > > > > > > > >
