But what is meditation - is it only sitting in lotus, eyes closed focusing on the third eye? I personally don't think so, I think any time you are utterly relaxed and centered you are in meditation. So I wouldn't discount the possibility that you are not meditating.
--- In [email protected], "seventhray1" <steve.sun...@...> wrote: > > > This is all quite interesting. For the moment at least, meditation > isn't really an integral part of my path. If it were, these > distinctions might be more important. And I appreciate that you have > laid them out. For some, I am sure they are important points. It says > somewhere that seekers are of three types, mild, intent, and super > focussed. I think I have slid down the scale some. > > > --- In [email protected], Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: > > > > > > On Jan 8, 2011, at 2:41 PM, seventhray1 wrote: > > > > > The thing about effortlessness, to me is like the same about gold. > > > Is pure gold, pure? No, it is only 99.999% pure. Is TM completely > > > effortless ? No, but why quibble about the amount of effort to > > > introduce or come back to the mantra. Maybe it's only 90% > > > effortless. I'll give it a pass on that basis. Is this really an > > > area of contention? > > > > > > The primary reason is that in Indian (and Buddhist or Jain) > > meditation systems, Patanjali for example, explains that effort is > > necessary in a dualistic system. ANY system of meditation that relies > > on objects or "props" (alambanas) will, ipso facto, require some > > effort. The more balanced and innocent the effort, the better the > > technique. Effortless meditation, in eastern metaphysics, refers to > > either the higher end of prop-based meditation practice where the > > intent to enter absorption is all that is necessary (for hours of > > effortless deep meditation) OR, more importantly, it refers to > > nondual meditation. > > > > It's the naive confusion of the style of "non-meditation" in nondual > > mediation practice, like used in Advaita Vedanta or Dzogchen that > > should be a warning sign to any careful listener. It's a sure way to > > tell if the person is a programmed parrot or not. > > > > In the west such nuances are easily glossed over. But in the east, in > > front of a knowledgeable pundit, you wouldn't fare as well. > > > > It it has alambanas, it has effort. Period. > > > > Otherwise you'd have to deny that TM relies on the support of mantras > > and the memory to return to the mantra when transcending stops and > > engagement with thinking starts again. > > > > Alambana > > n. depending on or resting upon ; hanging from Pa1n2. ; supporting , > > sustaining Megh. ; foundation , base Prab. Kat2hUp. ; reason , > > cause ; (in rhetoric) the natural and necessary connection of a > > sensation with the cause which excites it Sa1h. ; the mental exercise > > practised by the Yogin in endeavouring to realize the gross form of > > the Eternal VP. ; silent repetition of a prayer [W.] ; (with > > Buddhists) the five attributes of things (apprehended by or connected > > with the five senses , viz. form , sound , smell , taste , and > > touch ; also %{dharma} or law belonging to %{manas}). > > >
