Barry - based upon your posts here at FFL you seem to be the only one to have been sucked in to, not one but two teachers's obsessions. So you should go ahead and answer it, there might be others whose self-loathing and pain is not obvious as yours - who might follow your bold initiative. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb <no_reply@...> wrote: >> What *happened* along the Way that convinced you to start seeing the > world through someone else's eyes, and believing the things that they > do? Do you still *believe* these things, or do you just take it for > granted that you do, and never "go there" and analyze the beliefs > themselves?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb <no_reply@...> wrote: > > No, this is NOT a post about Judy. :-) > > It's a post about spiritual teachers. > > I'm of the opinion that one valid way of viewing spiritual teachers is > as people who have a strong set of beliefs, or have had some (to them) > profound experience, or both, and who were so overshadowed by those > beliefs or those experiences that they became obsessed with them, and > decided that they are the most important thing in life. Then, not > content with just feeling that they are the most important thing in life > *for them*, they dedicate their lives to convincing others to make them > the most important thing in life for them, too. > > I would suggest that this generalization is so widespread that it can > legitimately be called a truism. If you disagree, name me a spiritual > teacher to whom it does not apply. I'll wait. > > I've always liked William Peter Blatty's film "The Ninth Configuration." > What it's about (no spoilers) is a charismatic psychiatrist who is > transferred to a hospital for severely-traumatized US soldiers. Once > there, confronted with what he perceives as the madness around him, he > tries his best to draw these soldiers into preferring *his* view of both > them and reality over their own, to hopefully cure them of their PTSD. > I'm also a fan of books and films in which a charismatic person, > sometimes the polar opposite of what we think of as a spiritual teacher > and in fact a villain, manages to suck large numbers of people into his > or her inner world, and into believing that they are the most important > thing in life. Suffice it to say that this phenomenon is not limited to > fiction; the rise of Hitler or the Dick Cheney presidency come to mind. > > It seems to me that there are two ways of sucking another person into > one's obsession -- intellectually, and via charisma. The former appeals > to people who are predominantly lost in the intellect already, and > gravitate to those who appeal to it. Present such people with enough pat > "answers we have already prepared" ideas and concepts, and they'll > follow you anywhere, and over time they'll not only come to believe > them, they'll forget that they're not even their *own* ideas and > concepts. They'll present them to others (trying to suck them into the > now-group obsession) as if they were self-evident, or as if they'd > always believed them. > > The latter method of sucking someone into one's obsession is to > "broadcast" it to the world, via charisma. Such teachers bypass the > intellect entirely, and count on just being so charismatic that others > "feel their vibe" and want some of it for themselves. Interestingly > enough, this approach has a "spillover" into the intellect in that > people who have been flashed out by a charismatic teacher will > subsequently believe pretty much anything he or she tells them, whether > it makes any sense to the intellect or not. Contradictions don't matter, > and inconsistencies such as the teacher not really walking his or her > talk don't matter; they'll rationalize both away, because all that > really "matters" is the charisma they "feel." > > The bottom line, however, is that both types of teachers manage to suck > other people into their obsessions, and get them over time to believe > that they are as important to them as the teachers think they are to > them. > > I'm not suggesting that there is anything particularly wrong or bad > about this phenomenon; it's just What Is. But I might suggest every so > often taking a mental step back from the ideas, concepts, and > experiences that you believe are the most important in life, and doing a > little analysis as to where these beliefs *came from*. If they came from > a spiritual teacher, aren't you kinda living his or her idea of what is > most important in life, and not your own? > > What *happened* along the Way that convinced you to start seeing the > world through someone else's eyes, and believing the things that they > do? Do you still *believe* these things, or do you just take it for > granted that you do, and never "go there" and analyze the beliefs > themselves? > > I think that there is a value in such analysis. But I'm not going to try > to convince you of the value of such an approach, because that would > just be trying to suck you into my obsession. :-) >
