--- In [email protected], Bhairitu <noozguru@...> wrote: > > On 01/06/2012 03:53 PM, cardemaister wrote: > > > > --- In [email protected], Bhairitu<noozguru@> wrote: > >> On 01/05/2012 11:56 PM, cardemaister wrote: > >>> --- In [email protected], Bhairitu<noozguru@> wrote: > >>>> On 01/05/2012 03:19 PM, cardemaister wrote: > >>>>> --- In [email protected], Bhairitu<noozguru@> wrote: > >>>>>> On 01/05/2012 12:56 AM, cardemaister wrote: > >>>>>>> I'm not absolutely sure about that, but I guess I finally > >>>>>>> figgered out why e.g. C7 is called a *dominant* seventh chord > >>>>>>> (of the C major scale?). > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> As most of us might know, the 7 in C7 is B-flat, which > >>>>>>> doesn't belong to the C major scale. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> But if you form a similar seventh chord starting (as the root) from > >>>>>>> the *dominant* of C major scale, which is G, the diminished > >>>>>>> seventh is F, which is the fourth (subdominant) of the > >>>>>>> *C major* scale. :o > >>>>>> A dominant chord is one based on the 5th step of a major scale. Hence > >>>>>> the dominant 7th chord for C is G7. C7 is the dominant 7th chord for > >>>>>> the F major scale. A little music theory goes a long ways. > >>>>>> > >>>>> That sure would make more sense, but the first figure on this > >>>>> Wiki article: > >>>>> > >>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominant_seventh > >>>>> > >>>>> ...sez: dominant seventh chord on C: C7 [not G7] > >>>> That reference is for the different 7th chords on C such as C maj7 C7 > >>>> Cmi7 Cdim7 etc. But a dominant chort is the 5 chord which would be G in > >>>> the key of C. Go look up "dominant chord." > >>>> > >>> OK. But I think in "normal" 12 bar blues in C, the seventh chord > >>> is (usually?) C7. Isn't that then called a dominant seventh? > >> A C7 would be a dominant seventh chord for the key of F. You need to > >> study music theory from the ground up or you'll be confused. > >> > > This from one website (emphasis added): > > > > Dominant Seventh Chord > > One area of confusion when naming or identifying seventh chords is the use > > of the term dominant seventh chord. > > If you look at the table above summarising the degree of the scale where > > each type of seventh chord occurs, you will see that the dominant seventh > > need not lie only on the Vth degree of the scale, the degree we call the > > dominant. Indeed, in the natural minor scale, the dominant seventh chord > > lies on the VIIth degree not on the Vth degree. > > The point to remember is that the ***dominant seventh chord is any chord > > formed by adding a minor seventh to a major triad***. Remember too that the > > chord's note name is determined by its root note. So the chord G B D F is > > written G7 because the root note is G. G B D is a major triad and F is the > > minor seventh above G. This chord, therefore, is a dominant seventh chord. > > In the key of C major, the notes G B D F form a seventh chord on the Vth > > degree, i.e. a dominant seventh on the dominant of the scale. This is also > > true for the C minor natural and C minor melodic scales. However, the same > > notes, G B D F, are a G7 chord and a dominant seventh on the fourth (IV) > > degree of the D melodic minor scale. > > For completeness, we note finally that the notes G B D F are also a G7 > > chord and a dominant seventh on the seventh (VII) degree of the A natural > > minor scale. > > You need to pay attention to this line above: > > "In the key of C major, the notes G B D F form a seventh chord on the Vth > degree, i.e. a dominant seventh on the dominant of the scale." > > Note the phrase "dominant of the scale." This is what I've been talking > about. As for minor scales without looking it up do you know the difference > between a natural minor scale, a harmonic minor scale and a melodic minor > scale?>
The reason why I asked my question was mainly a linguistic one. I would actually expect that a "dominant seventh" is a seventh chord based on the dominant of the scale (e.g. in C, G), but got confused reading and listening some stuff on the net. Perhaps what one means by it depends on what genre of music one represents, as your last paragraph suggests. I must admit probably can't answer your question correctly without looking it up, but I think a natural minor scale is at least similar ascending and descending. E.g. Natural A minor scale is C major started a minor third lower. Or, perhaps not... : ] For some reason, I have never felt the need to memorize those differences although they are actually very important, I believe. > > You can't understand this stuff without having a complete knowledge of scales > and modes. You seem to have a fragmented understanding. You are also confused > because of the stylistic use of 7th chords in blues for coloration. I would > suggest looking at the seventh chords built on each step of the C scale and > identifying what kind of 7th chord is on each step of the scale. > > BTW, I wrote some arrangements for a jazz trio I played in and had to remind > the pianist, who was classically trained, that a C9 chord has a minor 7th. > He was playing a major seventh which if I had wanted that would have been > written Cmaj9. He didn't know the idiomatic use of chords in jazz. >
