--- In [email protected], "authfriend" <jstein@...> wrote:
>

> --beyond the bounds of what is expected, usual, normal,
> or appropriate 
> 
> There's also the Crazy Wisdom tradition, as you most
> likely know; and the Advahuts zarzari talks about.

I find it funny you quote me (indirectly I know), where I just had criticized 
you for your alignment with Ravi (and Robin!).

No, I don't think Ravi is an Avadhut, because Avadhuts are not internet 
trolling. What makes Avadhuts so special, and a matter of interest for serious 
seekers, is the fact that they are the opposite of attention sluts. If Avadhuts 
are abusive, and they can be abusive, they do so to chase you away, because 
they want to be left alone, and not because they want to attract attention. 
Most Avadhuts live on streets, many do so very purposefully, some refuse to 
take up comfortable homes.

The main thing about them is their total independence. The Gita, II 57 says: 
"The wisdom of that person remains established who has no attachment for 
anything anywhere, who neither praises nor hates anything whatever, good or 
evil, when he comes across it."

This is a verse following II 55, where Maharishis commentary occurs, that there 
are no OUTWARD signs of the enlightenment of a person. But that doesn't mean 
that one  is asked to bestow the title of enlightenment onto about anyone who 
demands so. It doesn't mean that one should throw all attempts of 
discrimination overboard.

No Avadhuta I know about actually claims enlightenment! It's just so 
un-avadhuta to do so.

My friend, who met many Avadhutas, and who let me to some (he is going to write 
a book about it), met one Avadhuta, who was struck by another man at his arm. 
He didn't react at all, he just looked at his arm, as if this was a foreign 
object!

So, if you say, that Avadhutas can react crazy, and can react abusive, it 
certainly doesn't mean, that if you react crazy and abusive, that you are an 
Avadhuta! And it doesn't mean that someone who claims enlightenment, and reacts 
crazy is an Avadhuta!

If you would see a complete desinterest, of lets say, who praises him, and who 
denounces him, that could be a sign of an Avadhuta. If you could see a total 
lack of making any career, as an 'enlightened' or becoming a famous writer, he 
could be an Avadhuta, but then he would not be here around. Can't imagine an 
Avadhuta making 50 posts exactly, then stopping to come back with one or two 
videos!

Can't think of an Avadhuta trying to create alliances on an internet forum! So, 
IMHO, what one should do is apply common sense, and occam's razor, and it is 
much more likely that Ravi has the problems he talks about. 

I remember Maharishi talking on TTC, giving an example of a lady, who claimed 
to another CP to be in CC, and asked him to marry her! He warned everyone that 
one should not take such claims serious. If somebody claims enlightenment, 
especially on a public forum like this, I would take it always take it with a 
grain of salt, because why should anyone want to do that? Occam's razor means 
that on a spiritual forum, such claims are more easily attempts at self 
exaltion.

So, the explanation, that we cannot determine purely from outside signs if 
someone is enlightened or not, is true on a sort of absolute level, but it is 
not very practical. The term enlightenment itself is a very conceptual term, 
and most enlighteneds I know about, don't like it, and wouldn't want to apply 
it to themselves. It's like the carrot on the stick, just a goal you project 
into the future. All the experiences people associate with BIG E can be faked.

What I accuse you of Judy, is not that you have explicitly confirmed the BIG E 
of either two candidates, but your quite obvious double standard in treating 
people like this. That is to say, if Ravi throws some junk words in the 
direction of TM and MMY, you somehow don't intercept in the same way, you would 
do as with Curtis or Barry. But Curtis and Barry could be just as enlightened 
as Ravi or Robin, according to your statement from the Gita, what gives? It's 
just the same, we all could be enlightened, I could be enlightened for that 
matter (and I even remember that you once called me out for it, that I, as an 
enlightened would argue to you like this would be unfair, lol) And of course, I 
am totally on Curtis' side in this whole Ravi affair. He should be either 
expelled, or all his abusive allegations should be deleted, and this should be 
at least treated as somebody overposting. Someone making 51 posts must wait for 
a week, but he, abusing Curtis in this way gets a pass!

With regard to Robin, I'd like to point out, that Maharishi said, that an 
enlightened can only be recognized by someone being at least in the same state. 
 So, Judy, you brilliant championeer of logic, when Maharishi declares that 
Robin is NOT in unity and never was, (and that is what is publicly known AFAIK, 
for former supposed statements we have to trust Robin), the either Maharishi 
wasn't enlightened, or Robin wasn't. Your choice. But from all, what I observe 
from you here, it is clear, that you have never been in the movement.

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