Barry, thank you for that, I learned a lot. Just a few quick thoughts:
I don't think because things crashed in the end for both Robin and Rama that we can justifiably call them charlatans. The end doesn't, for me, invalidate the earlier experiences. It seems that for us, at the time, we milked it for all it was worth. The thing you need to know about my involvement in what I was involved in had NOTHING to do with wanting to attain higher levels consciousness or even in my belief that Robin was enlightened. I frankly didn't give a damn. First and foremost I loved his rebellious nature. I loved that he was bucking the TM movement and doing it with a sharpness of intellect, without any airy-fairy embellishments. He just seemed to damn fascinating to me. Frankly, my ego got me to watch that first seminar tape, to attend the first seminar. I wanted to see if I could be good enough, smart enough, interesting enough to be able to stick around and be somebody in this new and strange group of people. I was ego-driven. Of course, I was promptly confronted at my very first seminar and "failed". I have been reading some more things about Rama in the last couple of hours. Some of the descriptions by seminar participants sound really, really similar to my seminars. We watched movies, listened to music, had stimulating discussions about these things, the theater, current events. There was chanting, manifestations, meditations. And of course, in our case with Robin, we had confrontations. You speak about Rama encouraging his students/followers to integrate into life, to pursue successful in careers: Barry: The one aspect of studying with Rama-Fred Lenz > that I would say was very different than what has > been described here as studying with Robin was that > it was very *pragmatic*. The main emphasis was on > doing well in the real world, being able to handle > any situation, with some modicum of class, and with > humor and lightness. It was exactly the same with Robin. We all had day jobs, there were pilots, physiotherapists, video production company owners, school teachers etc. It was about life and living, not sitting on our asses contemplating our proverbial navels. No one just hung around. Robin was, and still appears to be, one of the most energetic humans I have ever known. He emphasized the appropriateness of words and actions. He emphasized the acoustics of any situation and tried to steer us in the direction of what was or was not "happening" in any given moment. Kind of like someone else we know talking about the "science of being and art of living." You speak about the absolute silences of your meditations with Rama, the attraction of that. We don't have the privilege of meeting him via FFL. But let me tell you, if I had the chance I would relish it. Having learned just a little about him it would be incredible to interact with the man, to maybe come to understand him through his posts, his thoughts. It has been a huge gift for me to have the opportunity 25 years later to see that Robin is still alive, still writing and still available (or was until recently) for me to have another look. I wonder if you would not also have welcomed the chance to correspond with Rama now -knowing what you do, being who you are today. I really, really hope I get another chance to interact with Robin, whoever he is today. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb <no_reply@...> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > I would say that both of them were charlatans, but that > > at times Rama was far less of one than Robin. He, for > > example, really *could* sit in a room and have hundreds > > of people witness him perform the siddhis. In retrospect, > > being able to do that doesn't make one sane, but it was > > entertaining. But I wasn't there for the flash; I was > > around because of what it was like (in the early days) > > to meditate with him. Pure silence. You couldn't have > > a thought if you tried. That was neat, and at that time > > of my life, worth hanging around. Now, it wouldn't be. > > The one aspect of studying with Rama-Fred Lenz > that I would say was very different than what has > been described here as studying with Robin was that > it was very *pragmatic*. The main emphasis was on > doing well in the real world, being able to handle > any situation, with some modicum of class, and with > humor and lightness. > > He also put a great deal of energy "back into the > system," encouraging his students to pursue careers > that would enable them to be self-sufficient. And > many -- including myself -- took that with them when > they left. There were very few "New Age twifs" in > the Rama group, FAR less than in the TMO or in > other groups I've encountered. The students would > have "fit in" and done well in pretty much any > context, from boardroom to ski slopes. > > In retrospect, the people who have done the best > with the time they spent with him seem to me to be > the ones who walked away from him before he self- > destructed. They're all interesting, successful, > and generally happy people. The ones who are still > (IMO) a little pathetic are the ones who bought into > Rama's trip as verbatim Truth and who still feel that > way. There are still a few of those, and they strike > me as no less grounded in reality than still-True > Believer TMers. > > All in all -- probably a lot like hanging with Robin -- > it was very much a "You had to have been there" exper- > ience. If you weren't, you'll probably never understand > the attraction. >
