--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius" <anartaxius@...> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wgm4u" <anitaoaks4u@> wrote: > > > > The Devil is in the details; MMY could only be right if the 'bliss' he > > talks about was readily available, THIS IS NOT THE CASE! You may get a > > glimpse, may feel in peace, but the kind of bliss required to liberate you > > from all of your vices takes years and years to develop, I know, I've been > > meditating for over 40 years and have taught TM and still haven't unfolded > > bliss consciousness (far from it). > > > > So the truth is somewhere in the middle, both Self-Discipline AND > > Meditation are instrumental to ones well being in life, (and in the > > after-life) surely when you die you're going to be judged on your actual > > behavior not your wishful thinking, thinking TM would save you from all > > your foibles. > > > > It seems to me only prudent to follow Jesus' teachings (which MMY loves to > > quote), "As ye sow, so shall ye reap". > > > > MMY doesn't seem to grasp the concept of 'sin', maybe its never been a > > problem for him? *TIME* is the devil in the details of MMY's grandiose > > claims. > > > > See debate below: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIAnzvuglF4 > > Self-discipline is nice and usually advisable. Nature has consequences even > if you do not believe there is an entity watching who will sock it to you for > doing something it doesn't like, such as 'Thou shalt not seethe a kid in its > mother's milk' (that is one of the replacement ten commandments that yhwh > handed off to Moses after the first tablets were destroyed, and somehow they > did not match the first set - Exodus 34) > > The concept of sin does not exist in unity because the universe is seen as > not being possible to be any other way. > > I think there is a mistake in talking about bliss consciousness. Bliss > consciousness refers to just to consciousness. It is advertising hype, > referring to an experience that can be experienced but not adequately > described. Bliss consciousness, that is, just consciousness, is neither > blissful nor the opposite, it is just awake. At any level of 'evolution', > unless you are nerve dead, you can feel pain. The reason it is called bliss > consciousness is the psychological trauma of thought patterns one has in > ignorance die away as one progresses toward enlightenment. When you become > accommodated to the universe being the only way it can be, habits of thought > to the contrary get worn away. Suffering is psychological, and that is what > spiritual release from suffering is. Hypothetically you could be tortured if > you were enlightened, and it would hurt like hell. > > The path of enlightenment is not necessarily pleasant. The good feeling one > gets in meditation is just one experience. Enlightenment is not about > sustaining a specific experience, because experience always changes; it is > about realizing that what you are looking for in the search for bliss is not > something that is going to come later on, you cannot get to it by avoiding > the experience of the present moment, because bliss consciousness is the > present moment, joy or agony. > > It is really an intolerable situation to meditate for years and years, and > nothing seems to happen. Decades and decades of total failure to achieve 'the > result'. MMY talks about these states of awareness, but the last one 'comes > in time'. That means you cannot tell when it is going to happen. You also > don't know how to deal with what you have to go through after it happens. I > don't think there is anything I have heard in the TMO about this. > > Awakening seems to occur spontaneously after all the expectations one has had > fall away and you just give up that it is ever going to happen, and then you > could be watching TV, or walking down the street, or anything, and it comes, > and it is totally unlike anything you expected, and much more direct and > simple than imagined. You will not be wearing a crown and sitting on Mount > Olympus. And for most people, it is not complete, there is more grunt work to > do afterward as the experience unfolds and deepens in the following years. > > Someone told me once that MMY said you 'gain fulfillment in Brahman > Consciousness, but the unstressing goes on forever'. That is not exactly the > way TM is advertised. If you think the best you ever felt, doing TM or after > doing TM, is going to persist, forget it. It is experiencing the context of > all experiences and all experiences being one and the same that is 'bliss', > but it is not the relative bliss of feeling good. You will always want to > feel good, that is perfectly sane, and probably will most of the time, but > this is not what the spiritual trip is about. > > I really do not know if this makes any sense at all. This peculiar 'bliss' is > readily available, everyone has it all the time. The rhetoric of the TMO I > think creates a false aura of what to expect. It is what we hear that > intrigues us and gets us to start TM. This seems OK, but years and years > later, we need additional information about what is happening to us, and that > does not seem so available. The carrot on the stick eventually wears out its > welcome and usefulness. If you keep trying to escape TO bliss, you will never > find what bliss in this context really is. I was miserable for years. But it > is better now. But it does not mean I feel good all the time.
You seem to see things through the eyes of a Krishnamurti or more recently Eckhart Tolle, which strikes me as a sort of denial of existence (or a total acceptance if you wish) which will somehow enable you to truly live in the here and now, I don't buy it. When you're in a dream illusion, you use dream methods to wake up, such as Yoga which has been used for thousands of years. As MMY says, we are like "thirsty first in the sea" truly a dichotomy but resolved through Yogic techniques, ultimately.
