Geez, I almost missed this exchange. Very interesting and Ann, I thought you were pretty clear. You are also an excellent writer and a joy to read, btw. After reading this, I am reminded that Barry doesn't *hear* others' well, particularly if they challenge his viewpoint or correct any assumption he's made about them.
________________________________ From: awoelflebater <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 7:39 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Analyzing the TMO using the "economic psychology" model Well at least ONE reader here knew what I was writing about. Granted, she is smart, analytical, reasonable, meticulous and insightful. But surely the average FFL'er could understand most of what I said. Of course, I also realize most are not interested in this subject of mine but I was hoping Barry could at least "grok" half of it. After all, I was "rapping" on about it for him. (sigh) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@...> wrote: > > Earlier this morning I made a post in which I asked at > the end why anybody would consider anything Barry says > these days to be worthwhile. He's thoughtfully followed > up with another batch of even better examples of his > utter inanity: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater <no_reply@> wrote: > <snip> > > > > > > > So there was an element of > > > > > > > sentimentality, because in the end the whole thing didn't > > > > > > > quite pan out with regard to MMY or even Robin's > > > > > > > enlightenment... > > > > > > > > Not to mention "in terms of reality." :-) > > > > > > Oh, reality. Such a subjective and impossible-to-absolutely-define > > > concept. > > > > I don't actually see it as that difficult to define. > > > > Reality is that which, after you die and cease to exist > > as an egoic entity, persists. > > Is Barry suggesting he has died and ceased to exist as an > egoic entity? It would appear so, since he asserts above > that Robin's goals didn't pan out "in terms of reality." > > > > > With all due respect, Ann, what this sounds like to me > > > > is a bunch of moodmaking on *your* part, to "color" your > > > > memories such that *you* feel "noble." > > > > > > Interesting that it comes across like this because this is > > > not what I am about. > > > > I *get* that. Why I am commenting is that you're coming > > across as if that *was* what you were about. > > Correction: This is how Barry perceives Ann to be coming > across. And that perception is not subject to any > modification. > > > > First of all, what Robin did or did not do during my time around > > > him doesn't reflect the slightest on me, what I was hoping for > > > or what I believed. He was pretty much guiding the ship and we > > > were all tossed about, including him. > > > > So you abdicate all responsibility for walking up the > > plank and boarding that ship? Just asking. > > > > > Nobility is the least of it. I didn't give a dang about his > > > "enlightenment", the movement, TM or any of the other spiritual > > > trappings. I thought he was a wonderful shit disturbing rebel > > > with interesting ideas, he was attractive, smart and there was > > > never a dull moment around him (if you don't count the chanting > > > and manifestations). > > > > Cool. This is the most "real" I have yet heard you speak > > about your time with Robin on this forum. That's what I > > have been after. > > IOW, Barry didn't read all the other posts in which she's > said the same thing. > > <snip> > > > I told you, nobility isn't in the picture, way too over > > > the top for me. > > > > And, as I think I've told you and others here, I don't > > believe a word you say. I believe only what you do. > > As has been pointed out to Barry before, there is no > "doing" on this forum, only "saying." The distinction > he attempts to make is just an excuse for calling people > liars, as he does Ann above. > > <snip> > > Now come the really interesting parts of Barry's response: > > > > You forget or maybe never read that post but I was the > > > whistleblower at the end, > > > > In my personal experience, the "whistleblowers" from cults > > are among the *most attached* former members of those cults. > > They tend to persist in their attachments decades after > > the True Believers have moved on. > > > > > ...the one who "outed" the whole thing to the city of Victoria > > > via the city paper in a 5 part series that ran over 5 weeks, > > > I was used as a source for Masters students researching cult > > > phenomena, I was interviewed on national radio (CBC). I ended > > > up getting some of the followers fired from their jobs because > > > of their involvement with Robin... > > > > See above. > > > > > ...I personally stormed the big house and grabbed my best > > > friend, throwing his things into my horse trailer. I sent > > > scathing letters to the group and Robin, I showed up at a > > > seminar to tell them how crazy it had all gotten. And > > > that is just the tip of the iceberg. > > > > And all of this is supposed to convince me that you didn't > > go more than a little "bunny boiler" on Robin? :-) > > > > Attachment is attachment. How it is expressed is irrelevant. > > > > > When it was over, it was over. No sentimentality there but > > > no regrets either. And I don't feel noble about any of the > > > "heroics" at the end if that is what you're thinking. > > > > I have no earthly idea what you are talking about. > > > > Really. > > Is that amazing? She just finished describing the "heroics," > and Barry has no idea what she's referring to. > > > What did you imagine? That it -- whatever "it" was -- was > > all glorious, and deserving of the term "heroics?" And that > > everyone here would just know what you were referring to? > > Just asking. > > Anybody who has read her post with any attention would > know exactly what she was referring to, since she just > got done describing it in some detail. > > > > Actually, I feel really bad it had to come to that,,, > > > > What? We have no idea what you're talking about. Really. > > That was part of *your* experience, not ours. > > > > In my estimation, no one on this forum has any idea what > > you are talking about. > > I suspect all of us on this forum who actually read > her post with any attention know exactly what she was > talking about. "The 'heroics' at the end" obviously > refers to what she just described of her whistleblower > activities. So does "that." Not at all clear how > anybody who was compos mentis could miss it. > > > > ...especially about my > > > old friend getting fired from her job. > > > > As if this should matter to us. As it clearly *still* does > > matter to you, all these decades on. Just saying. > > Barry, of course, never indulges in an instant's reflection > on anything he's ever done that has had a negative effect > on anyone, including his old friends. > > > > > I am certainly willing to look at that interpretation of > > > > my time with Rama. But I've never seen you deal with that > > > > possible interpretation of Robin. It's as if you're still > > > > trying to impress him (assuming that he's lurking), and > > > > still hoping for the same "pat on the back" from him that > > > > you lived for at the time. > > > > > > Nah, whoever Robin is today is bound to be a different Robin > > > and I am certainly changed. Who he is in relation to me is > > > perhaps never to be known to me so what exactly I would be > > > looking for approval for or from who, based on who exactly > > > the man is anymore, is impossible to establish. What can I do > > > on FFL to impress him? Based on reading what he has to say he > > > has acknowledged his past misconceptions, errors and > > > various transgressions against his former students and friends. > > > For me to sit here and write about how noble and wonderful and > > > infallible he was back then would be to be doing him a > > > disservice. > > > > Why? > > > > One simple question. Three letters. WHY? > > Geez. Barry can't follow the simplest explanation. *Because > Robin thinks he behaved like a total shit*, that's why. > > > > I think I know him well enough to know he would despise me > > > for it. > > > > And this still *matters* to you? I'm seriously asking. > > Yes, isn't it amazing? Ann would prefer not to cause > someone discomfort by saying something she knows isn't > true about them. We can all understand why that's so > difficult for Barry to grasp. > > > > He would despise it because he knows I would be acting falsely. > > > He would remember how I felt and what I did at the end of things > > > in 1986 and to praise him now and ignore how it all went down > > > would be ridiculous. > > > > Again, if I may be so rude as to point this out to you, > > this is another list of things that mean something only to > > you and inside your head. No one else here knows WTF you > > are talking about. Really. > > Again, anybody who read her post with attention would > know *exactly* what she was talking about, because she > described it in some detail. > > > > > It's your near inability to see any other side of him *but* > > > > the "noble" side that makes me think you're mood-making. > > > > Still. All these years later. > > > > > > I see lots more than his good qualities, nobility not one of > > > them by the way - I think I described him as a "misguided > > > warrior" - and I could make a list of negative ones. I had > > > thought about it a lot way back when, but only recently has > > > the subject come back to the forefront because of FFL. It is > > > not something I had thought about much at all in 25 years. > > > > I am suggesting that perhaps you should have. > > Says Barry, obliviously contradicting his immediately > previous suggestions that Ann is too "attached" to what > happened in the past. Earlier in the post, e.g., he said: > > > In my personal experience, the "whistleblowers" from cults > > are among the *most attached* former members of those cults. > > They tend to persist in their attachments decades after > > the True Believers have moved on. > > Ann just told Barry she moved on shortly after having blown > the whistle. And now he's telling her she shouldn't have; > she should have stayed attached. > > Really, his brain cells are dying at an ever-increasing > rate. >
