--- In [email protected], turquoiseb <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "Susan" <wayback71@> wrote:
> >
> > Hey Barry, 
> > your post has got me thinking today, all day.  I know what 
> > you mean about Wonder and how having rigid beliefs can put 
> > a lid on being open to other possibilities. But I also think 
> > that many people need religious beliefs, or spiritual beliefs 
> > of some sort to get thru life.  Life can be really hard, and 
> > it seems many humans must have some built-in need to have 
> > Cause and Effect relationships in what they look at and think 
> > about.  We like seeing the order that cause/effect implies, 
> > it makes us feel that we have some control of at least some 
> > things, it makes us feel safer, and it keeps some anxiety at 
> > bay.  We need The Story of how things happened and what might 
> > happen in the future.  I don't think everyone needs this, but 
> > some do. 
> 
> I agree. 
> 
> > Your sense of Wonder and your comfort with the unknowableness 
> > of it all is so brave, so free, and shared by most scientists 
> > and inventors, I bet. But this is not necessarily what other 
> > people would even benefit from.  I speak here personally.
> 
> Again, I agree, but not about the "brave" part. My 
> approach to these things is just predilection. As
> Jessica Rabbit said, "I'm just drawn that way." :-)
> 
> > For me, all this info about the brain is fascinating, I 
> > gobble it up, science is great - but also has made me - 
> > honestly - nostalgic for the days when I believed my 
> > spiritual experiences to be proof of something more. 
> 
> Again with the "drawn that way." I almost never am.
> I *remember* the sense of certainty I felt in the
> past, and recognize it in people I know who still
> feel it, but I do not. Nor do I miss it.
> 
> > I am in transition now and not sure where I belong or what 
> > I believe. I know nothing has been proven, yet, but some 
> > doubts and uncertainty are there for me.  
> 
> From my point of view, that's a good sign. 
> 
> > It does not make me feel more Wonder. Now when I look at 
> > the stars in the summer sky (I do this a lot and for long 
> > periods of time) I feel wonder but also uneasy and, well, 
> > alone. In fact, I have been thinking for some time now 
> > that maybe it was easier for me before I began doubting.  
> 
> I don't doubt this. It was certainly easier for me
> before I started thinking for myself, too. But I 
> wouldn't trade what I feel now for what I felt then.
> 
> > I feel not sure and unanchored in a way or belief system 
> > to see life. And then it turns out that Enlightenment is 
> > not what I thought - that it too is not what I had thought.
> 
> I suspect *nothing* is what we think it is.
> 
> > I guess what I am saying is that different people get thru 
> > life in different ways. My bet is that some brains need more 
> > structure and external rules and beliefs and stories to feel 
> > secure and happy. 
> 
> I do not disagree.
> 
> > Others, like yours, thrive being entirely free of those 
> > conceptions and constructs, and find them limiting. 
> 
> Predilection. When I first moved to Santa Fe and was
> looking for a place to live, I got used to real estate
> agents showing me a place but then saying, "I have to
> warn you...it's *very* windy out here." That always
> surprised me, because for me that would have been a 
> plus, not a warning. For others, not so much. Not 
> better or worse, just predilection.
> 
> > While I know Dawkins and others are writing brilliant 
> > books about there being no God, and about how destructive 
> > religion has been - I also don't think they are doing a 
> > favor to lots of people who really need these beliefs to 
> > feel good during the few years of life they have here. 
> 
> I don't see how what Dawkins and those others say or
> do impacts those who believe in God one way or another.
> Does what they choose to believe depend on what he
> believes? Does what he believes affect them?
> 
> > It really does take lots of approaches, and people scramble 
> > and struggle to make sense of it all, even if believing in 
> > something not actually a fact.
> > 
> > However, here we are on Fairfield LIfe, which is where people 
> > debate these issues. If you check in here, you have to be 
> > prepared to loosen up and try on new ideas. And you have to 
> > be honest about your POV, as yo have been. Some will be upset 
> > by the back and forth. But I just wanted to add in my usual 
> > wordy fashion that losing one's faith in something benign but 
> > untrue is not always helpful, even if it is untrue.
> 
> Predilection. I wouldn't trade the faith I had in my
> youth for any day I spend as a skeptic in the present, 
> even if I could be young again to do it. 

Question: how would you raise a child these days? What would you tell them?  
Would you want them in an organized religion, what beliefs if any would you 
encourage?

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