--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <LEnglish5@...> wrote: > > The question arises: which ruts does TM practice create?
What I'm talking about is behaviour patterns, could be anything from driving a car to having panic attacks. All of them are things that we learn and become habituated to doing at certain times. Don't know if TM itself would create a rut other than than the habit of doing it. but then we don't really know how it works, maybe the increase of what you call coherence is due to a rut being followed and the after effect carrying on into daily routine. They always become easier as the path becomes better worn. Ruts aren't bad it's only our opinion of them that colours them so. When you have a nervous problem (OCD for instance) your brain is just following it's learned procedure same as when you sit behind the wheel of a car to drive it. All this is unconscious and the brain thinks it is helping you whatever it does, it's all stimulus/response. There is no good or bad [to the unconscious] but thinking makes it so. NLP techniques teach you to identify the trigger and lead yourself away from the rutted path you dislike. TM, it claims, does something similar in diluting the rut and removing the line on stone. That's the idea anyway, which is why I say if you learn TM for a specific reason you may be disappointed as that is likely to be something that has pissed you off for many years. TM = not such a good therapy there. But for general anxiety or PTSD it may be better as that is a constant state of adrenal arousal that may benefit from the rut of the relaxation response as there isn't a specific target to re-rut. So maybe comparative meditation studies should include NLP in working out which is most effective for various complaints? > L > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long <sharelong60@> wrote: > > > > Yes, what I've read is that the neural pathways are like ruts in a dirt > > road. Every time one goes down a particular rut, the pathway is as if > > deepened. Thus one is more likely to go down that pathway the next > > time. I think I first encountered this idea in Tara Bennett Goleman's > > Emotional Alchemy. > > > > I know just a very little bit about NLP, mainly from an expat friend who > > has lived in China for quite some time. Glad you found something both so > > beneficial and enjoyable.  > > > > > > Thank you for positive feedback > > Share > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: salyavin808 <fintlewoodlewix@> > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 11:51 AM > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: lecture on research on adverse effects of > > meditation > > > > > >  > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long <sharelong60@> wrote: > > > > > > Here's an article I received recently that talks about, among other > > > related topics, attention in the sense of what Rick Hanson calls self > > > regulated neuroplasticity.à> > > > > > > > > http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/how_to_trick_your_brain_for_happiness > > > > Good share Share, sounds similar to some of the Neuro Linguistic > > Programming courses I've done and Cognitive Behavioural Therapy I've read > > about. Train the mind to go in a particular direction at a > > particular time and it will be more likely to go that way next time > > the stimulus arises. It can be used to train the mind to alieviate stress > > or play musical instruments better or even to perform better at job > > interviews - you are only limited by your imagination, the brochure says. > > > > I found it useful, I quit the "siddhis" so I'd have more time to practise > > NLP and found that I really prefered life without all that sitting around > > and hoping for the best. Much better to feel that > > you are directly tackling life's problems rather than hoping some "stress" > > will be released, some day.... > > > > > PSàMaharishi used to also say take it as it comes.àAnd if it > > > doesn't come, then go out and create it. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: curtisdeltablues <curtisdeltablues@> > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 10:34 AM > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: lecture on research on adverse effects of > > > meditation > > > > > > > > > à> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" <fintlewoodlewix@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > <If you'd asked me when I was a TB I'd have dutifully given all the > > > "correct" responses about how it affected me and everyone I'd > > > known who'd done it long term, I'm just a bit more honest now, a > > > bit more ready to compare the promise with the result, and not so likely > > > to keep > > > the faith. I like it and see it's done something > > > but is it all it's cracked up to be? Of course not. Was it worth > > > the effort? We'll never know as I have no "control me" to compare > > > myself to.> > > > > > > I loved that. It focuses questions I have about my own practice of TM. > > > Since Maharishi's death I have gone back and forth with practicing TM > > > after not practicing for 18 years. I try it for a year or 6 months at a > > > time and really enjoy it. But then something creeps up over time that > > > makes me think that I am just addicted to it and that it is not doing > > > anything for me cumulatively and isn't worth the time. > > > > > > I was reading an interesting book called "What makes your brain happy and > > > why you should do the opposite". He makes a case for ways that our brain > > > seeks states that don't necessarily serve us. And our cognitive gaps are > > > often the result. We reverse engineer "reasons" that we do things that > > > ultimately represented the brains dislike for change, even if it is > > > growth. > > > > > > So for me the jury is still out. I have little doubt that some people > > > can benefit from whatever it is that meditation does. I know for me, > > > short term, it can make me feel better. I really like it right before > > > performing to clear my head if I've had a long drive and feel scrambled. > > > But what it does to us long term and neurologically is a mystery. And I > > > am not inclined to believe that ancient cultures had it all figured out a > > > long time ago. > > > > > > Sometimes when I am in my TM phase I feel the way I used to, that I could > > > sit in that state for hours. It has a charm. But I can't help thinking > > > that my ol' brain is just catching a nice stasis buzz and the attraction > > > has more to do with my brain's lack of interest in having to do some > > > heavy lifting of challenge to become the most "me" I can be. "Do nothing > > > and accomplish everything" sounds a little like "Turn on, tune in, drop > > > out" to me now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <LEnglish5@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Interesting that you dont' hear what I hear: > > > > > > > > > > "a couple of suicides" reported by a single teacher PLUS a > > > > > hospitalization every year of students of that same teacher PLUS 2-4 > > > > > people with inability to work for a month every year, again from that > > > > > same teacher. > > > > > > > > > > This is a pretty big contrast with the much touted stuff for the TM > > > > > organization, which has taught 5 million people, including people in > > > > > mental institutions, veterans with PTSD, former child prostitutes, > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > And.... > > > > > > > > > > just because symptoms of "unstressing" are the same from TM, does > > > > > this mean the outcome is the same? > > > > > > > > Why doesn't someone from the TM science dept do the research and > > > > find out? I know people who have stopped because they couldn't cope > > > > with it. I know people who have had mental breakdowns on or after > > > > courses or had to exchange purusha for an even bouncier room in > > > > hospital. I think you'll find the stories are there *if* you want to > > > > go look for them. > > > > > > > > > According to published research, the most consistent effect of most > > > > > meditation practices, is as fragmentation of brain functioning. > > > > > > > > > > The most consistent effect of TM practice is integration of brain > > > > > functioning. > > > > > > > > > > The depersonalization and "loss of self" that most meditation > > > > > practices lead to is thought, *BY THE RESEARCHERS*, to be due to this > > > > > brain function fragmentation. > > > > > > > > > > The constant state of pure watchful awareness that long-term TMers > > > > > report is thought to be due to brain integration. > > > > > > > > If you'd asked me when I was a TB I'd have dutifully given all the > > > > "correct" responses about how it affected me and everyone I'd > > > > known who'd done it long term, I'm just a bit more honest now, a > > > > bit more ready to compare the promise with the result, and not so > > > > likely to keep the faith. I like it and see it's done something > > > > but is it all it's cracked up to be? Of course not. Was it worth > > > > the effort? We'll never know as I have no "control me" to compare > > > > myself to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both situations are interpreted as "depersonalization" or > > > > > "derealization" by some people when they hear descriptions of it, but > > > > > the mechanisms that prompt these self-reports are completely > > > > > different. > > > > > > > > > > Which goes back to MMY's claim, which he probably learned from > > > > > Gurudev, BTW, that most meditation techniques do subtle damage to the > > > > > brain, even if they also have beneficial effects. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > L > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" > > > > > <fintlewoodlewix@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <LEnglish5@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I take it no-one besides me bothered watching this? > > > > > > > > > > > > I bothered, very interesting. It sounds like "Something good > > > > > > is happening" in other disciplines too, which might indicate > > > > > > that meditation techniques aren't so different. > > > > > > > > > > > > There isn't much here I haven't experienced myself and I've > > > > > > seen a great many other people suffer on courses. I agree > > > > > > with what she says about knowing when it's an expected example > > > > > > of progress or a development of pathology or is it all down > > > > > > to how much you can personally cope with? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some VERY interesting statistics were brought out. Where's Vaj > > > > > > > when you need an alternate point of view? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > L > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <LEnglish5@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > note that ONLY buddhist meditation techniques and teachers were > > > > > > > > interviewed/considered by the lecturer: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://vimeo.com/18819660 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting, at least to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > L > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
