--- In [email protected], "emptybill" <emptybill@...> wrote:
>
> Cut the B.S.
> 
> Truth is not a proposition.

I guess your experience is, "I can do nothing about this."



> --- In [email protected], "Robin Carlsen" <maskedzebra@>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > We are as brave as our willingness to experience as much truth as will
> hurt us into changing ourselves.
> >
> > One thing is certain: at some point in our individual existence we
> shall meet a perfect being.
> >
> > If you want to say something you think is true, you must say it
> through the totality of who you are.
> >
> > Someone who praises us, or defends us, who speaks up for us--this
> means nothing to us unless we sense they know us as we know ourselves.
> >
> > The good angels will among other things never know how good a cup of
> coffee tastes.
> >
> > If you understand death the way it really is, it is, in the case of
> every human being, a perfectly unnatural thing.
> >
> > Oneness has become the greatest metaphysical cliche there ever was.
> >
> > No one has ever complained about anything once they have died. Even,
> as is the case: they continue to exist.
> >
> > The closest a man and a woman can come together is when they realize
> there is a sphere of communion that transcends gender. Then are true
> lovers.
> >
> > It doesn't matter how hateful, cruel, miserable someone is--just as
> long as their experience is: I can do nothing about this.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  When you say something or write something and all the feedback you
> get comes
> > from within yourself and from nowhere else, your isolation tells you
> you are not
> > exactly making yourself sweet to reality.
> > >
> >
> > Or maybe the most exquisitely beautiful and perfect feedback that
> anyone can
> > expect can come from nowhere other than your Self.
> >
> > > If you are really saying something true, there is a strong
> likelihood you will
> > get some help in saying it--from the origin of what gives us a sense
> of there
> > being something like what it feels like when something is true.
> > >
> >
> > The only help that is real, true, and unconditional comes from within,
> from a
> > place even more subtle than sensing or feeling.
> >
> > > Reality once was willing to be translated into dogma; no such
> willingness
> > exists anymore; reality is a living and experiential thing--only;
> there is no
> > dogma extant within which reality will allow itself to be held.
> > >
> > > Imagine coming into a context which knows you better than you do;
> imagine a
> > context which forces lovingly and involuntarily upon your
> consciousness the
> > truth of everything that could ever be said about you, everything that
> has
> > happened to you in your life--including every single one of your acts:
> all this
> > seen inside the perfect meaning of it all--a meaning which you
> instantly
> > recognize as complete therefore which you accept unconditionally: this
> is what
> > dying must be.
> > >
> > > Life is not designed to have the truth of it known through a process
> of
> > transcendence. Life can only be known inside its design from within
> life itself;
> > this is why the East must in the final analysis be false; it would
> trivialize
> > the immense and inconceivable suffering we have all undergone--and all
> our
> > gratuitous joys too.
> > >
> > > If there is a Personal God who has given us each a specified free
> will (the
> > faculty is identical in all of us; its functioning singular in each
> and every
> > case), then God himself must face the truth that the person he does
> not
> > eternally accept into his Kingdom (whatever that might be) has only
> become what
> > it was most certain he or she would become and could become nothing
> else. The
> > sense of the justice of one's fate--inside a context of eternity--must
> > be--seemingly--felt to be more truthful and right (to that person)
> than whatever
> > awareness God has that he has willed in some way that that person
> never really
> > had the chance to be anything other than what he or she *has* become.
> > >
> > > The natural prejudice and cynicism towards Christianity is proof
> that it once
> > was true in the universe--because the religion itself says so much
> more that is
> > pertinent to the business of being a human being with free will in the
> universe
> > than any other religion--Judaism excepted. And there are no reasonable
> > criticisms to be made about Christianity qua Christianity that account
> for the
> > animus against it. So, it must be true that Christianity itself has
> decided to
> > die. This is the proof it was true, for no false religion could have
> the power
> > and truth to destroy itself. Think Peter meeting Christ for the first
> time:
> > Christianity does not make this experience available to anyone.
> > >
> > > The Sixties signalled the end of civilization as we have known it,
> but somehow
> > there is the intuition that it was, at the same time, in a way no one
> of us can
> > know, the beginning of a new creation; a creation, quite obviously,
> which has
> > not yet come into being. But the intuition is undeniable: something
> else is true
> > now and that something else that is true means there is a whole other
> truth
> > regarding what is to come, about which we know nothing.
> > >
> > > Once Maharishi and TM did not come true, it somehow meant--for each
> and every
> > one of us devoted initiators--that nothing would come true.
> Conclusion:
> > Maharishi was the counterfeit of the real thing: the real thing which
> has yet to
> > come into Creation--something better than Christ and all his
> suffering. It
> > hasn't come yet. It is nowhere in the world. Not one of us
> ex-initiators has
> > found something experientially that qualitatively gives us a more
> sublime sense
> > of truth than we enjoyed, say, in 1973.
> > >
> > > It is something interesting to contemplate someone we knew so well,
> having
> > died, and wondering what that person knows now--about themselves,
> about God,
> > about all of creation. We are, each one of us, going to have that
> experience,
> > and we will remember this very moment perfectly and always. Once, that
> is we
> > have died--and therefore know we cannot die again. No matter what is
> said on
> > this forum, it just might be the most exquisitely personal experience
> we have
> > ever had.
> > >
> >
> > Most of the above may be pearls before swine; some of the above is
> exquisitely
> > poetic that even I recognize; and I thank you for taking the time and
> effort to
> > write it.
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > LaughingGull:
> >
> > > Robin: Thank you for the list of additional "truth" criteria and for
> your
> > > thoughts on Plath, Hughes, Stevens, and even Capote. I'm sure there
> are many
> > > things of value in what you write, and I'm coming to realize that
> you demand
> > > some effort on the part of the reader to attach significance to what
> you
> > write.
> > > In other words, there are "layers" to your writing (much like
> Maharishi's
> > > response to the question of whether or not you were in UC).
> > >
> > > And I think I get it that the content of our lives (here on FFL or
> otherwise)
> > > could be far more than the frivolous, mundance, shallow, etc. etc.
> way that
> > some
> > > of us post or live. Yet, that's the beauty in being here in that
> *what* each
> > of
> > > us is doing right here and right now happens to be *just* the right
> thing that
> > > each of us *could* be doing right here and right now, here on FFL or
> otherwise
> > >
> > > There are many approaches to one's realization of his/her true
> nature, not
> > just
> > > the path of the intellect. Trotaka anyone?
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > Robin responds to laughinggull:
> >
> > > > Any confidence not born of grace is potentially suspect.
> > > >
> > > > Thinking you ever have something more to say to someone than you
> have to say
> > > to yourself (in the saying of that something to that other person)
> usually
> > means
> > > trouble.
> > > >
> > > > Life is always trying to break us open--at least in some
> cumulatively
> > > providential sense this is its intention.
> > > >
> > > > We just might have to put up with ourselves for a very long time.
> > > >
> > > > If love is not intelligent it is not the real thing.
> > > >
> > > > The highest gift from reality is the realization that one's life
> is designed
> > > to make one into a someone other and more than what we could be if
> our life
> > was
> > > just up to us.
> > > >
> > > > Reality no longer provides any form of certainty about truth that
> can exist
> > > separated from the living and immediate perception of what reality
> serves up
> > in
> > > one's experience.
> > > >
> > > > Any final idea of happiness will include the physical.
> > > >
> > > > If your sense of what is right does not escape from your
> subjectivity, it is
> > > likely wrong.
> > > >
> > > > Pride is just a very inefficient way of experiencing what is real.
> > > >
> > > > The person we are was once an idea before we came to exist as the
> person we
> > > are.
> > > >
> >
> > LaughingGull:
> >
> > > > Robin, I too enjoyed your list of criteria for determining the
> > truth (although
> > > > I'll have to admit, I had to read each one very, very slowly!).
> > > >
> > > > I watched "Sylvia" again last night, a movie about Sylvia Plath
> (Gwyneth
> > > > Paltrow), her writings, her marriage to Ted Hughes (Daniel Craig),
> and
> > finally
> > > > her suicide. The scene where some poets are just sitting around
> > spontaneously
> > > > rifting on whatever's in their heads reminds me somewhat of your
> writings.
> > > I'll
> > > > bet you would have made a great "beat" poet...perhaps you *were*
> one of
> > those
> > > > "beat" poets? If you care to share, what are your thoughts on
> Sylvia Plath's
> > > > poetry or the writings of Jack Kerouac? Did either or both have a
> handle on
> > > the
> > > > truth of reality?
> > > >
> >
> > RC:
> >
> > > I met Ted Hughes after a poetry reading: he was an extraordinary
> human being.
> > > >
> > > > Who was at fault there--only 'God' knows the answer to this. And
> now, so do
> > > Sylvia and Ted--and their son.
> > > >
> > > > I liked *On the Road* a lot more than Truman Capote did.
> > > >
> > > > I think Sylvia more normal than Ted--but she could not bear the
> mystique of
> > > his maleness in the presence of other women.
> > > >
> > > > I think of Wallace Stevens possessing a more metaphysically
> beautiful mind
> > > than Kerouac.
> > > >
> > > > Being a TM teacher in the early seventies held a lot more meaning
> than being
> > > merely a Dharma Bum.
> > > >
> > > > Emily was abstemious in her posts today.
> >
> > > > --- In [email protected], "Robin Carlsen"
> <maskedzebra@> wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > > > You are just as interested in the proposition of being wrong as
> being
> > right.
> > > > >
> > > > > You let reality be as complex as it wants to be as it makes
> itself known
> > > > inside your mind.
> > > > >
> > > > > Your argument interacts with reality (and you feel this) as you
> articulate
> > > > that argument.
> > > > >
> > > > > You seek to say what you have said before but to make sure you
> have the
> > > > experience when you say it as it you have never said it before.
> > > > >
> > > > > You are always being potentially the most critical audience to
> your own
> > > > performance.
> > > > >
> > > > > You look for the fresh validation from what is most real: the
> validity of
> > > your opinion is, for you, up for grabs when you express it.
> > > > >
> > > > > You do your best to make your experience of being you as
> original and
> > > innocent as if you were just coming to know yourself for the first
> time in
> > that moment.
> > > > >
> > > > > You seek to know the difference between when the wind is behind
> you, when
> > > the wind is blasting in your face.
> > > > >
> > > > > You like the idea of life as the opportunity to continually
> recreate
> > > > yourself--and to be recreated.
> > > > >
> > > > > You have the experience that what is behind reality knows you
> better than
> > > you know yourself.
> >
>


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