Good to have you here on FFL Carol :-)

On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 8:15 PM, Carol <jchwe...@gmail.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Chuckle... :D
>
> Reading your description brought to mind a photo on George Takei's FB
> page...
>
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=595621543800636&set=a.223098324386295.105971.205344452828349&type=1
>
>
> ***********
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote:
> >
> > Thank you Carol - here's more descriptions, just for fun.
> >
> > Divine Mother from Hindu scriptures - an epitome of beauty, grace,
> > intelligence, courage, independence, lover of arts - just having fun with
> > that dude Shiva - one cool, sophisticated liberal woman celebrating life
> > yeah?
> >
> > Fantasized, self-styled Divine Mother and Guru like Amma -
> sado-masochist,
> > suffering for masses, virgin, chaste, pure (read - doesn't indulge in
> > shameful things like peeing, menstruating and shudder - sex !!!). Her
> abode
> > aka ashram representing strict gender roles, conservative,
> life-abnegating,
> > misogynist values.
> >
> > Whew - ain't no way in hell Shiva's hanging out with this uncivilized,
> > uneducated, uncouth woman.
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 7:16 PM, Carol wrote:
> >
> > > **
>
> > >
> > >
> > > Wow Ravi...you certainly have a way with words. I like your
> descriptions.
> > >
> > > *************
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Carol - so awesome you could see that - however these Gurus, the very
> > > ones
> > > > committing and teaching soul murders are the ones that are worshiped
> by
> > > the
> > > > burdened liberals - eager to numb their pain, eager to abdicate
> > > > responsibility to these Gurus- this 2000 year old childish
> fascination
> > > with
> > > > a messiah suffering for our sins - these masochistic messiahs,
> adored for
> > > > their masochistic, life-abnegating, life-numbing feats of physical
> > > > endurance masqueraded as sacrifice and spirituality.
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 4:56 PM, Carol wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > **
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > typo: I no longer knew me...not I know longer knew me. Ha.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Carol" wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That makes sense to me...as far as turning the experience into a
> > > > > philosophy that results in "repression,perversion and/or other life
> > > > > abnegating practices."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In my previous belief system which was Bible based, we referred
> to
> > > those
> > > > > who are 'telios' being fully mature spiritually. We were the
> > > > > initiated...the enlightened (but not necessarily the same
> > > enlightenment as
> > > > > what others in Far East philosophies refer to).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But, what I discovered in becoming teleioo is what I term 'soul
> > > murder'
> > > > > or 'soul suicide.' I know longer knew me and ended up a shell of a
> > > person.
> > > > > I hope to never go back to that state. (Not saying that is what the
> > > > > Biblical word refers to, but rather it was distorted.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Something I had typed (and then deleted) in my previous comment
> was,
> > > "It
> > > > > simply is." "It" referring to enlightenment..or whatever one wants
> to
> > > call
> > > > > it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kind of like breath...it is. Or life. Or even death. It is.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > **************
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is well and good Carol. However most in spirituality make
> the
> > > end
> > > > > - such as detachment, freedom as a way of living, as philosophy
> > > resulting
> > > > > in repression, perversion and/or other life abnegating practices.
> > > Hence the
> > > > > fascination for Gandhi, Teresa, Dalai Lama, Ammachi - these pseudo
> > > > > spiritual life abnegating, poverty worshiping icons, messiahs. So
> this
> > > is
> > > > > something to be remembered - that detachment, freedom, humility are
> > > the end
> > > > > product and cannot be wrapped into a belief system or a style of
> > > living.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Jan 27, 2013, at 2:44 PM, "Carol" wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks for the responses.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In reading them one word comes to mind...freedom.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And then I think...Freedom from attachment.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But, then I think, of emotions and the feelings of
> attachment.
> > > > > Attachment isn't a bad thing; it just depends on the timing and the
> > > type of
> > > > > attachment.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Such as children. I love my children and will always feel
> > > attached
> > > > > with them. But, as they have grown into adults, I've had to let go
> of
> > > parts
> > > > > of that attachment.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hmm....there is a new freedom in letting go of that
> attachment
> > > with
> > > > > my children. It is a different kind of attachment now because they
> > > don't
> > > > > need me like they did when they were infants and youngsters.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In the past years I thought of 'enlightenment' kind of like
> > > someone
> > > > > being on an ego trip. But, I never really asked about it or read
> up on
> > > it.
> > > > > Apparently, I was assuming and/or reading into the term from my own
> > > past
> > > > > experiences.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > From reading the responses here, the responses don't come
> across
> > > as
> > > > > ego trips.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *********
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Carol wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > **
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I find your response interesting. Ravi, I started another
> > > thread
> > > > > regarding
> > > > > > > > > > enlightenment here:
> > > > > > > > > >
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/333764
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Would you mind commenting on that thread? (Just to keep
> the
> > > > > comments
> > > > > > > > > > together. Hope that is an okay request here on FFL.)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > In your words, what is "enlightenment?"
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thank you Carol. Here's what I came up for your question.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Enlightenment creates a state of consciousness, a context
> of
> > > > > self-freedom
> > > > > > > > > in which one is not constrained by anything outside of
> oneself
> > > > > even as one
> > > > > > > > > performs normal actions and goes through normal moods as
> > > everyone
> > > > > else. An
> > > > > > > > > unperturbed inner state of mind untouched, untainted,
> > > > > unconditioned by
> > > > > > > > > anything.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thank you!
> > > > > > > > > > *************
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Chivukula"
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > "Meditation gets you there faster, no?"
> > > > > > > > > > > No this is a wrong notion that I see being perpetuated
> by
> > > > > everyone I
> > > > > > > > > > > hear. Meditation lets you purify your body, mind and
> > > senses so
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > transition is smoother, easier when the mystical energy
> > > > > descends. When
> > > > > > > > > > > this happens and if it indeed happens is a big question
> > > mark
> > > > > and has no
> > > > > > > > > > > relation to a regular meditation practice such as in my
> > > case.
> > > > > Two years
> > > > > > > > > > > down the line I seem to agree with Vaj that TM is an
> > > unhealthy
> > > > > > > > > > > meditation technique that can cause abnormal states of
> > > mind -
> > > > > better to
> > > > > > > > > > > stick with hatha yoga, pranaayama etc. So
> enlightenment is
> > > not
> > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > > > achievement. This is the problem I had with most on
> Batgap
> > > -
> > > > > what most
> > > > > > > > > > > are describing there are some altered states of
> > > consciousness
> > > > > created by
> > > > > > > > > > > their meditation techniques.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>  
>

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