Oddly enough, my mom picked up a lot of art and furniture in Indonesia, so for most of the time I grew up, a Balinese painting of *a Puja performance*, complete with incense and fruit, has been hanging above the dining room table - itself a masterpiece, the top consisting of a circular, six foot cross section of Banyan Tree wood. I so love the sensuality of the tropics.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... wrote: > > Hi, I might add that growing up in the East, I wasn't impressed or alienated > by any of the religions I experienced - Got so used to the Imam singing the > worshipers to prayer in Djakarta that it became part of the background. So > there was no reason to keep with TM, unless it worked. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ wrote: > > > > > > I was mostly exposed to Buddhist practices, and some Hindu and Taoist, > > > before I learned TM. Also served in the Christian Church. Tried several > > > types of meditation before learning TM, Buddhist mantra repetition, > > > Christian contemplation, and Hindu chanting. > > > > > > When I learned TM, the experience was simply different, and mechanically > > > effective, in spite of my skeptical and overwhelmed mind, so I stuck with > > > it. It is the only technique that reliably got me out of my own way. > > > > > > No dogma - just the way I like it. "Take it easy, take it as it comes - > > > even when it don't come easy", and, "When you are going through hell, > > > keep on going." - in thee nutshell.:-) > > > > > > > Oh, snap! Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Barry. Nice story, thanks Doc. > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > They do it with TM, because TM is the only technique that > > > > > operates without conscious intervention. The other stuff > > > > > you are talking about may make you feel all cozy and > > > > > spiritual, but it doesn't do jack wrt to long term changes. > > > > > > > > And you know this HOW? Oh yeah...that's what you were > > > > *told* by the person who *sold* you the only form of > > > > meditation you have ever practiced. :-) > > > > > > > > I just can't wait for other dweebs such as yourself > > > > who have never practiced ANY form of meditation other > > > > than TM to chime in on this thread and tell us how > > > > superior TM is to these other techniques *they have > > > > never tried, and never experienced*. :-) > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My opinion is that they developed the buddy system and > > > > > > > all the other "precautions" because there had been a > > > > > > > few really sad and serious situations where people did > > > > > > > become unstable or have breakdowns while on various > > > > > > > course, or even died. > > > > > > > > > > > > That is correct. Even though there were freakouts back > > > > > > on the India courses (one guy lost it and ran through > > > > > > the jungles screaming for several hours before they > > > > > > could catch him), the concern on the part of the TMO > > > > > > started, as I understand it, back in Estes Park, where > > > > > > people were having all sorts of mental and physical > > > > > > issues related to the long meds (no asanas then), so > > > > > > Maharishi tried "rounding." > > > > > > > > > > > > When that didn't stop the negative effects of the longer > > > > > > periods of meditation, he started to talk about "unstress- > > > > > > ing" as related to this phenomenon, and claim that it was > > > > > > because Westerners carried more "stress" in their systems > > > > > > than people in India he had been more used to, and that > > > > > > it was a Good Thing, because, after all, "stress" was being > > > > > > released. And everybody just bought this, just as they had > > > > > > everything else he had said. > > > > > > > > > > > > The addition of asanas to "program" on courses didn't do > > > > > > anything to stop these negative side effects, however, as > > > > > > anyone who was on the Fiuggi course should remember. The > > > > > > first 2-3 rows at that course were reserved for "heavy > > > > > > unstressers," and it was a real zoo. It looked like a > > > > > > convention of people suffering from epilepsy, Tourettes > > > > > > Syndrome, or both. Arms jerking and flying around, people > > > > > > grunting and yelling and moaning -- and all of this *in > > > > > > activity*, sitting in a lecture hall, not during "program." > > > > > > In fact, most of these people were told to *stop* rounding > > > > > > and meditate normally, and *the symptoms did not go away*. > > > > > > For some of them these tics and jerks and uncontrollable > > > > > > spasms lasted for months. (Please note that all of this > > > > > > was the result of plain, vanilla TM, *long* before the > > > > > > Sidhis and *their* brand of grunting and twitching > > > > > > appeared upon the scene.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > My guess is that most of these people were unstable before > > > > > > > coming to the course. I suspect this happens in all > > > > > > > spiritual groups and churches, too. > > > > > > > > > > > > What I'm trying to tell you is that -- based on my exper- > > > > > > ience and that of thousands of others who have attended > > > > > > in-residence long meditation courses in other techniques, > > > > > > NO SUCH PHENOMENA ARE PRESENT. No one ever had to > > > > > > make up "rules" or "guidelines" to deal with such extreme > > > > > > side effects, because they NEVER APPEARED. > > > > > > > > > > > > Personally, I believe that the basic laziness of the basic > > > > > > TM technique is at fault. The techniques of meditation at > > > > > > these other courses involved more focus. *Not*, as TMers > > > > > > were often told, "concentrating" on the mantra or other > > > > > > point of meditational focus, just being aware enough not > > > > > > to sit there for long periods time -- or for the whole > > > > > > meditation session -- lost in thoughts and daydreams. MMY > > > > > > thought this was OK, but most other traditions -- those > > > > > > based on *real* traditions as opposed to having been made > > > > > > up, like TM -- say that the lazy, effortless approach > > > > > > characterized by TM is debilitating, because long-term, > > > > > > this practice causes people to get "stuck in the astral" > > > > > > and become spaced out and reclusive and incapable of > > > > > > being grounded in activity. That's certainly what I saw > > > > > > on TM courses, but *never* on courses from these other > > > > > > traditions whose courses I attended. > > > > > > > > > > > > > People who need a place to belong or to rest their weary > > > > > > > and confused bones land in churches and Buddhist groups, > > > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not to argue, but I think such people would be more drawn > > > > > > to churches than most Buddhist groups I'm aware of, because > > > > > > in the latter one is expected to WORK, on a daily basis, > > > > > > at resolving one's own problems. There is never that sense > > > > > > that someone or something is going to "do it for you" that > > > > > > we see in churches and in New Age groups. > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the TMO, to try and keep an eye on people somehow, > > > > > > > people were paired into buddies so that a report would > > > > > > > come if someone seemed odd. > > > > > > > > > > > > At which point, as I suggested earlier, NO ONE IN CHARGE > > > > > > OF THE COURSE WOULD KNOW WHAT TO DO. They had > > > > > > never been *trained* in what to do. > > > > > > > > > > > > In my considered opinion, the main reason for the "Don't > > > > > > leave the course" and the "buddy" rules was to keep spaced- > > > > > > out people from wandering around in the towns the courses > > > > > > were held in and thus giving TM and the TMO a bad name. > > > > > > That happened enough times in the early days that they > > > > > > were wary of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > But in retrospect I really believe that all of these side > > > > > > effects of longer periods of meditation were the result > > > > > > of the TM technique. I say this based on my *own exper- > > > > > > ience*, both with TM and with a number of other techniques, > > > > > > and both on TM residence courses and those given by the > > > > > > teachers of these other techniques of meditation. And, of > > > > > > course, on similar experiences reported by thousands of > > > > > > people who had studied the latter techniques, vs. thousands > > > > > > of people who studied TM. > > > > > > > > > > > > You don't have "rules and regs" to deal with "heavy > > > > > > unstressing" on these other courses BECAUSE THEY ARE > > > > > > NOT NEEDED. No such experiences ever arise for the > > > > > > course participants. > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do they with TM? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seems to me that the fault is in the technique itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > From: turquoiseb > > > > > > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 12:05 PM > > > > > > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Challenge: Talk about the issue, > > > > > > > > > not the people who brought it up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > I'm just going to riff off of one small aspect of your post, > > > > > > > > > because it triggered a train of thought that I found inter- > > > > > > > > > esting and wanted to rap about. No disrespect to the rest > > > > > > > > > of your excellent post, really. :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quite by accident or perhaps by Cosmic Design, I became > > > > > > > > > > aware of some things that disturbed me a fair amount > > > > > > > > > > with the behavior of Bevan and other members of the TMO > > > > > > > > > > who were creating some shenanigans in Heavenly Mountain > > > > > > > > > > - it was really the Boone, NC stuff that made me decide > > > > > > > > > > not to have anything to do with the TMO except maybe > > > > > > > > > > round sometime... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever noticed that one of the never-noticed > > > > > > > > > and never-spoken-of assumptions that many people make, > > > > > > > > > *including* those who have stepped back from involve- > > > > > > > > > ment in the TMO, is that being able to "round" is > > > > > > > > > somehow inevitably linked to being in good enough > > > > > > > > > standing with the TMO that you will still be allowed > > > > > > > > > to go on one of their courses? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The assumption is that "on a course" officially offered > > > > > > > > > by the TMO is the only place they *could* round, or at > > > > > > > > > least "safely" round. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did it never occur to them to just go to a nice place, > > > > > > > > > rent a room with a great view, and just do some "extra > > > > > > > > > rounds" on their own? Did it never occur to them to go > > > > > > > > > on some other organization's retreat and just do their > > > > > > > > > TM and/or TMSP program there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I suspect, now that this has been brought to my attention, > > > > > > > > > that a LOT of people picked up this subliminal idea that > > > > > > > > > one cannot or should not "round" except on a TM course. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And why? Is it somehow "safer" to "round" as we were > > > > > > > > > instructed on an "official" course? Do you believe that > > > > > > > > > the people who led them had any ability to keep you > > > > > > > > > safe, that they were taught things specific to rounding > > > > > > > > > to watch for in course participants and how to help > > > > > > > > > them out of the difficulties if they found themselves > > > > > > > > > in one? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I ran all of the TM residence courses offered in the > > > > > > > > > Western US States for several years. In that capacity > > > > > > > > > I was pretty much in charge of "residence course teacher > > > > > > > > > training," in that I made sure that everyone who taught > > > > > > > > > these weekend or week-long course followed certain > > > > > > > > > guidelines sent down to us from "International." In > > > > > > > > > the Regional Offices we tried our best to select good > > > > > > > > > teachers, people with a good rep as teachers, but also > > > > > > > > > as having a good head on their shoulders and being > > > > > > > > > pretty real-world grounded. But I can assure you that > > > > > > > > > none of them ever received any training on how to > > > > > > > > > take care of anything woeful that might happen to > > > > > > > > > a course participant during "rounding." It was as if > > > > > > > > > the whole residence course idea was based on the > > > > > > > > > assumption that this could never *happen*. What could > > > > > > > > > possibly go wrong, after all, on a TM residence course > > > > > > > > > that is by definition "100% life supporting?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This may have changed after I left the TM movement, > > > > > > > > > and as more people freaked out on courses. I can only > > > > > > > > > speak for the period up to 1972, and based on my own > > > > > > > > > limited experience within the TMO. If anyone who ever > > > > > > > > > taught residence courses has different memories, please > > > > > > > > > speak up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, these were just thoughts triggered by something > > > > > > > > > Michael said, thrown out to see if anyone identifies > > > > > > > > > with them, or has anything to say about them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
