--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson <mjackson74@...> wrote: > > Marshy's lies and the lies of his successors don't change > just because you say they are truth
That's another meaningless non sequitur, Michael. Why are you so afraid to address the issue emptybill has raised? > ________________________________ > From: authfriend <authfriend@...> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 6:01 PM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch Is Back > > >  > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > ââ¬Å"Occasionally, > > there may come a dreamer who is aware that he is dreaming. He may control > > something of the dream-stuff, bending it to his will, or he may awaken into > > greater self-knowledge. If he chooses the path of self-knowledge, his glory > > is > > great and he shall be for all ages like unto a star. If he chooses instead > > the > > way of the Tantras, combining Samsara and Nirvana, comprehending the world > > and > > continuing to live in it, this one is mighty among dreamers. > > > > To dwell within Samsara, however, is to be subject to the works of those who > > are mighty among dreamers. If they be mighty for good, it is a golden time. > > If > > they be mighty for ill, it is a time of darkness. The dream may turn to > > nightmare.ââ¬ï¿½ ââ¬" Roger Zelazney, Lord of Light > > > > In my > > opinion, Marsh-y took what could have been a movement that truly could have > > transformed the world and fucked it up because he couldnââ¬â¢t get > > enough praise, > > money and pussy. He did indeed make it a nightmare and all the bullshit PR > > from > > David Lynch and his TM cronies wonââ¬â¢t change it. > > Yes, I do believe we've heard all this from you before, > more than once. > > What was the relevance to the issue of whether TM is a > "Hindu devotional practice"? > > Really, Michael, it's getting a little worrisome. Whenever > you're challenged, you just seem to sort of zone out and > sing one of your old familiar choruses to yourself. It's a > version of "Lalalalala, I can't hear you." > > > ________________________________ > > From: authfriend > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 4:37 PM > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch Is Back > > > > > > à> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > > > I should take your word over what someone who spent years > > > serving Marshy night and day - and I am pathetic? > > > > Are you hallucinating? Where on earth did you get the idea > > that it was *my* word? > > > > It's a thoughtful, knowledgeable post from emptybill, who > > is hardly a TM fanatic (not sure he does TM any longer). > > He quotes a respected scholarly yogi on the subject. > > > > "Years serving Maharishi night and day" gives your skin- > > boy pal exactly what credentials to expound on the nature > > of japa vs. TM? > > > > If this skin-boy is such an infallible authority, why > > don't you send him emptybill's post (plus the follow-up > > I posted) and ask him to refute them, then tell us what > > he says? (And don't paraphrase, quote.) If the guy knows > > his onions, it should be a snap for him to tear emptybill's > > arguments to bits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: authfriend > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 4:02 PM > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch Is Back > > > > > > > > > Ãâà> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm taking the word of one of Marshy's skin boys whom I > > > > spoke with on the phone about a week ago. > > > > > > Translation: My mind is made up; don't confuse me with > > > the facts. > > > > > > No kidding, Michael, that's a pretty pathetic response. > > > > > > > From: emptybill > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 2:52 PM > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch Is Back > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > Outside of your personal opinions, your statements about the TM > > > > technique are not accurate. > > > > > > > > M.Jack says: > > > > > > > > TM isnot a simple mental technique making use of > > > > meaningless sounds. > > > > It is in fact a Hindu devotional practice of chanting > > > > (silently) the names of Hindu goddesses. > > > > > > > > In reply, here is a previous post discussing the differences between > > > > meditation-mantra and devotional-japa. > > > > > > > > ************************************************************************* > > > > > > > > Recently I have read here on FFL an argument > > > > professed by some former TM'ers who stopped practicing because they > > > > claimed > > > > they were deceived about the "meaning" of mantras.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > Their fundamental claim is that a mantra is the > > > > name of a Hindu god. The claim is that a mantra, by definition, > > > > encapsulates a > > > > method for worshiping a Hindu god but that this fact is withheld from > > > > practitioners. Within the domain of this argument, these claimants will > > > > often > > > > quote some text from a Hindu Tantra. These are passages usually > > > > assigning a > > > > particular deity to a particular mantra and sometimes even assigning a > > > > set of > > > > deities to each of the Sanskrit letters composing the written forms of > > > > the > > > > mantric sound. This textual assignment is sometimes done haphazardly and > > > > occasionally is done in the Vedic format of rishi-deva-chhanda. > > > > Along with the quoted Tantric text is sometimes a > > > > statement by MMY, declaring that a mantra is a "sound whose effect is > > > > known". This argument quotes the TMO claim that a mantra is used in TM > > > > for > > > > the beneficial effects it produces in causing the spontaneous > > > > refinement of > > > > perception. This explanation is then paraded as an example of shameful > > > > exploitation of Western ignorance of the "Hindu" foundation of TM and > > > > of any other Indian meditation that does not confess itself as a form of > > > > "Hindu devotionalism". This devotionalist criticism is further > > > > paraded by pointing to various Indian swamis and cross-eyed yogis who > > > > make > > > > these same claims and arguments themselves. > > > > Some considerations about these claims: > > > > SBS taught in India. MMY began teaching in India > > > > before coming to the West. They both taught within the context of the > > > > Indian > > > > Hindu cultural model. Although they taught in India, where there are > > > > many > > > > Muslims, they did not present their teaching within a Muslim cultural > > > > model. > > > > Although Buddhism is from India and many Indian consider Buddha one of > > > > their > > > > own, neither SBS nor MMY taught within a Buddhist cultural model. > > > > Rather, they > > > > taught within the cultural context of their listeners. > > > > After coming to the West, MMY continued speaking > > > > and teaching within a similar Indian cultural model - for a while. It > > > > was the teaching model established by Vivekananda and Paramahansa > > > > Yogananda ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬" > > > > partly religious, partly philosophical and partly yogic. However the > > > > cultural > > > > context of this form of teachings was the 19th and 20th century > > > > paradigm of Western Modernity. > > > > When MMY realized the limitations brought by this > > > > model and of religious language here in the West he took a left turn. > > > > That > > > > divergence left some of his teachers behind - Charlie Lutts being an > > > > example. > > > > This is one reason that pointing to early religious > > > > language by MMY or SBS is an inaccurate over-simplification. > > > > As far as the "it is all a deceit" claimants, the two > > > > groups that are the most antagonist and strident are the materialists > > > > and the > > > > religionists. Materialists claim mantras are the mumbo formulas of > > > > hindoo gods > > > > and that the concept of gods/god is a false idea propounded by power > > > > brokers to > > > > enslave the masses. This is a truncated Marxist view popular among the > > > > half-educated. > > > > Contrary to this, the religionists claim that mantras are > > > > secret demonic traps devised to enslave us to hindoo devils. This is > > > > the view > > > > of true-believer adherents of the Abrahamic religions > > > > ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬" Jews, Christians and > > > > Muslims. This is not simply a fundamentalist diatribe from TV > > > > evangelicals. > > > > This was the original view of Christians from the second century C.E. > > > > forward > > > > and after Constantine's ascent to Roman power was used as incinerating > > > > ideological propellant for killing polytheists.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > What is obvious is that both groups are unable to > > > > rationally consider the facts because they are ideologues entrenched in > > > > a > > > > priori conclusions.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàOne example of > > > > this is a clear demarcation about the difference between yoga and > > > > religion. > > > > Materialists dismiss such an idea because yoga historically emerged > > > > within in a > > > > Hindu cultural context. Semitic monotheists condemn this idea for the > > > > same > > > > reason. > > > > If we consider the role of yoga, it is apparent > > > > that most meditating Westerners are functionally ignorant about the > > > > nature, > > > > range, depth and complexity of yoga lineages - whether Vedic, Hindu, > > > > Buddhist > > > > or Jain. Most of them do not know the difference between Vedic, Puranic > > > > and > > > > Tantric lineages of practice. They also do not understand how these > > > > three > > > > streams developed and then intertwined into Hindu temple rites. They > > > > don't know vidhi from vedi.* > > > > Even more surprising, most swamis and imported, > > > > so-called ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà"yogis" are not > > > > Pandits, Indologists, or Sanskritists. Very few are formally educated > > > > in the > > > > yoga traditions of the Indian subcontinent. Most are only trained in > > > > asana, > > > > pranayam and japa.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàA little bhakti here, > > > > a few Upanishad citations there and "om > > > > tat sat" - I'm a guru. > > > > Faced with this, most of us Westerners who meditate > > > > are at a disadvantage when presented with claims that we are not > > > > educated to > > > > conceptualize within an informed view. > > > > So, to counter-point this misunderstanding, I am > > > > providing a short but authoritative quotation from an impeccable yogic > > > > source > > > > about the difference between mantra practice in both yogic and > > > > devotional > > > > sadhana practice.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàHari > > > > Dass BabaÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà(the upa-guru of Ram Dass) > > > > Quotes on > > > > the difference between Mantra practice and Japa practice. > > > > 1.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàMantra > > > > is the repetition of sounds or words which have power due to the > > > > vibration > > > > of the sound itself. > > > > 2.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàJapa is the rhythmic > > > > repetition of a name of > > > > God. > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàIt (Japa) consists of automatic Pranayama, > > > > concentration and meditation. The main idea in doing Japa is to make > > > > the mind > > > > thoughtless. Then automatically body consciousness disappears. If your > > > > body > > > > consciousness disappears, it means your sadhana is going well. The body > > > > is the > > > > medium of sadhana and the body is the hindrance in sadhana. Japa is a > > > > formal method of worshipping God. It should be done privately > > > > and preferably with a mala, or rosary. > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàSilence Speaks: from the chalkboard of > > > > Baba Hari Dass, 1977 (my bolding). > > > > *vidhi is a specific method of puja. Vedi is the altar > > > > used in yajna. > > > > As an addendum: Western Buddhists are slightly more > > > > educated about the various streams of Buddhism but on the other hand > > > > they read > > > > a lot. In reality they don't know much about the differences in > > > > viewpoints or > > > > sadhana practice between Theravada, Mahayana and Tantra. They know even > > > > less > > > > about the differences in basic view between Zen, Tantra, Mahamudra and > > > > Dzogchen. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > > > > > > > So since they aren't posting my comment - here it is: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I began TM in 1974 and enjoyed it enough to become a real TM > > > > > fanatic and cheerleader. As the years went by, I left the TM Movement > > > > > due to > > > > > the huge disconnect between the promises of TM and what it actually > > > > > delivered, > > > > > especially the awful, arrogant deceitful behavior of even the low to > > > > > mid level > > > > > managers of the TM organization, much less the leaders of the > > > > > Movement. > > > > > > > > > > Lynch is spearheading a very carefully orchestrated effort > > > > > to sanitize the TM's image to a pre-1976 luster. 1976 was the year > > > > > their > > > > > Maharishi announced the TM Sidhi program to the world. The TM > > > > > Movement can > > > > > honestly be characterized as a decades long flow of dishonesty and > > > > > deceit, > > > > > taking money under false pretenses and very unpleasant behavior on > > > > > the part of > > > > > those who administrate the Movement. > > > > > > > > > > I had the pleasure of speaking at some length with someone > > > > > who spent years as Maharishi's personal secretary and for all his > > > > > praise of the > > > > > man, this person told me that it was clear that the leader of the TM > > > > > movement > > > > > was totally focused on sex, money and personal power. What the Big M > > > > > created, > > > > > his Movement perpetuates. > > > > > > > > > > TM is not a simple mental technique making use of > > > > > meaningless sounds. It is in fact a Hindu devotional practice of > > > > > chanting > > > > > (silently) the names of Hindu goddesses. And that is alright as long > > > > > as you are > > > > > upfront about what you are doing. For my money and in my experience, > > > > > TM is one > > > > > big scam. After more than 20 years I stopped doing TM and never > > > > > looked back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > From: obbajeeba no_re...@yahoogroups.com > > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 8:52 PM > > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: David Lynch Is Back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > I hope you can post your comment here. Please, please, please!? > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks nabby for posting - I put my own nice comment there - let's > > > > > > see if they have the guts to post it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 3:11 PM > > > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] David Lynch Is Back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'ââ∠> > > > > > ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > Advertise on NYTimes.com > > > > > > David Lynch Is Back ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ > > > > > > 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃââÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâìÃÆ'Ã'ââ∠> > > > > > ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâæ as a Guru of Transcendental Meditation > > > > > > > > > > > > David Lynch for The New York Times > > > > > > David Lynch took a self-portrait at Idem Paris, a fine-art printing > > > > > > studio, in December. > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'ââ∠> > > > > > ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > Article at The New York Times here: > > > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/magazine/david-lynch-transcendental-meditation.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
