--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula <chivukula.ravi@...> wrote:
>
> LG baby - I think you will be better off if you search the archives and read 
> the art of irony as expounded by Robin, 'cause seriously your lame, retarded 
> attempt at irony is pretty pathetic.

http://youtu.be/xDUKxVPKUt8

> Where did you say you were from again - South or North Carolina? (Oh God - I 
> beg you, please let it be NC).
> 
> 
> On Mar 25, 2013, at 10:18 AM, laughinggull108 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula <chivukula.ravi@> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear LG - you are awesome, your brilliance shines through. I am on the 
> > > same page as you, I think Ann loves this exchange where her doubts are 
> > > totally clarified by the impartial, disinterested POV of Curtis. I think 
> > > she will be a fan of Curtis's belief in epistemological purity of 
> > > neuroscience soon !!!
> > > 
> > 
> > (LJB in full prostrate e-position with e-hands touching His Holiness' 
> > e-feet) If I may humbly offer a word of advice Your Worshipfulness? 
> > (Permission granted by an e-tap to the e-head) Don't make the devotee into 
> > the Devoted; it is too much of a burden for one to bare and I am unworthy. 
> > (An e-nod of His e-head) And don't be afraid to say what You really think. 
> > (E-eyes widen with understanding as LJB awkwardly backs away remaining in 
> > full prostrate e-position)
> > 
> > > On Mar 25, 2013, at 6:00 AM, laughinggull108 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> 
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Curtis & Ann,
> > > > 
> > > > I just wanted to say that I'm *lovin'* this conversation...so rational, 
> > > > so calm, so from the heart, so real, so intelligent, so everthing. I 
> > > > hope all conversations here aspire to this level. Thank you.
> > > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ann" <awoelflebater@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey Curtis, thanks for this comprehensive reply. Although on one 
> > > > > level it seems to be all about Barry it isn't really and it has gone 
> > > > > past that into more interesting territory. I'd like to touch on some 
> > > > > of what that territory is below:
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> > > > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ann" <awoelflebater@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> > > > > > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robin Carlsen" 
> > > > > > > > <maskedzebra@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Your analysis might apply to people he does not like. 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Curtis, Barry does not like anyone who disagrees with him.>
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I don't see a lot of people not agreeing with Barry. I see a lot of 
> > > > > > people attacking him personally. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > <His criteria for liking or not liking someone are very transparent 
> > > > > > and quite simple. They include more than the one I just mentioned, 
> > > > > > but ultimately he dislikes personal challenge coming from others.>
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > He expressed his dislike for you and Robin before any of that 
> > > > > > happened. ( His objection to my use of dislike here is noted.)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > < If that challenge takes the form of anything resembling a 
> > > > > > different viewpoint or one that makes him have to question his very 
> > > > > > rigid beliefs or one that requires him to retract, apologize or 
> > > > > > question his position he will take that as a personal attack or as 
> > > > > > a sign of boringness, cuntness, small mindedness or stupidity on 
> > > > > > the part of that person.>
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I might have to see an example of this. I am more familiar with the 
> > > > > > predictable "Barry is bad" meme that flows freely here. I see more 
> > > > > > actual personal attacks than a challenge to beliefs. And I am not 
> > > > > > denying that he both gives as good as he gets and sometime 
> > > > > > initiates the insult cycle as he did with you and Robin. But since 
> > > > > > then the nature of your posts about him have been more insult to 
> > > > > > belief challenging as has Robin's.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Barry aside and generally speaking I think when one challenges 
> > > > > someone it can take many forms. It can come across as insulting, it 
> > > > > can come across as inappropriate or harsh. One can challenge beliefs 
> > > > > by poking at the character of a man. You can expose or reveal 
> > > > > something about someone by using the back door. A conversation 
> > > > > doesn't have to be about how someone feels about Buddhism, for 
> > > > > example, to figure out how Buddhist someone is in their life. Just 
> > > > > like you can walk into someone's house and come to understand, on 
> > > > > some level, many aspects of their personality, their priorities, 
> > > > > their tastes, what is valued and what isn't. Everything about what we 
> > > > > do and wear and eat and read and watch tell the world about us. So my 
> > > > > point is, you don't have to talk about a subject directly to come to 
> > > > > understand how someone thinks about that subject. Granted, it can be 
> > > > > the most direct way but words are easy to come by and actions and 
> > > > > reactions under certain conditions can tell us much about another's 
> > > > > beliefs. (I am trying not to talk specifically about Barry here and 
> > > > > it may be coming out a bit unclear. I hope you understand what I am 
> > > > > trying to say.)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > He is not open to being vulnerable to people who he does not 
> > > > > > > > like. 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Barry is never vulnerable on this forum. Ever.>
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Sometimes this is people who attack him, but not always. He 
> > > > > > > > didn't like you right off. So you only see the version of Barry 
> > > > > > > > that applies to you, a person he does not respect.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Barry doesn't begin to have the tools to "deal" with Robin. He is 
> > > > > > > so far out of his depth, his comfort zone his perception of what 
> > > > > > > is unknown or possible that to actually interact on even the most 
> > > > > > > superficial level with Robin would require something Barry simply 
> > > > > > > does not possess or refuses to acknowledge. It is kind of like 
> > > > > > > asking a seal to run the 100m dash in 10 seconds on dry land. Not 
> > > > > > > possible.>
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I guess we don't hold the same lofty view of Robin's intellect. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > I don't hold a lofty view of Robin's intellect. I think he sees the 
> > > > > world in a different way than I see it. I am open to figuring out if 
> > > > > that way, in each form that it expresses itself under many different 
> > > > > circumstances, is valid or not. When I try and determine that I can 
> > > > > only determine the validity of it as it relates to ME. The 
> > > > > truthfulness of Robin's viewpoints and experiences can not be 
> > > > > validated by myself with respect to anything more ultimate or 
> > > > > absolute or as they impact him in his own life. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > His attack on Barry was actually very simple but he stretched it 
> > > > > > out endlessly. And his response to my challenge to his belief was 
> > > > > > not met with anything close to thoughtful dialogue. it was his 
> > > > > > routine. All insults masquerading as if he was considering my 
> > > > > > points. A snarky farce dripping with the insincerity and 
> > > > > > condescension that is his trademark.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > For me, intellectually there is not too much there there, just a 
> > > > > > penchant for wordiness. And he recycles his insults, he has used 
> > > > > > the same claims about me and others here. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > BW, then, does not allow the reader, either consciously or 
> > > > > > > > > unconsciously, to derive any experience of what kind of 
> > > > > > > > > experience BW must be having as he so slovenly and 
> > > > > > > > > insincerely (the latter is quite subtle and can easily be 
> > > > > > > > > missed) argues for his position.>
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > The digs aside (slovenly? insincerely?) I don't believe he sees 
> > > > > > > > any reason to share anything with people he does not like or 
> > > > > > > > respect. 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > This excuse of "respect" is not about that at all. That is a 
> > > > > > > convenient but erroneous description of what is really going on. 
> > > > > > > It isn't about what Barry feels about the other person it is what 
> > > > > > > the other person makes Barry feel about himself and THAT is what 
> > > > > > > Barry dislikes.>
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > You may be giving yourself a bit too much credit for insight into 
> > > > > > his motives here.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I don't give myself any credit because I do not know if I am correct. 
> > > > > That is not how I see myself - as someone with great insights into 
> > > > > the psychology of others. I can know what I feel and what I THINK it 
> > > > > might mean but I do not sit back after making some proclamation about 
> > > > > another person and pat myself on the back. If Barry was my husband or 
> > > > > my brother I would care more about figuring out his motives but 
> > > > > because he is just a poster on some random forum I stumbled upon and 
> > > > > have decided for the time being to keep posting at it is not a big 
> > > > > concern for me to BE right.
> > > > > 
> > > > > > I have never seen you interact with him in a detailed way to 
> > > > > > warrant your confidence in this theory. I just don't believe you 
> > > > > > are in a position to know this from your interactions with him or 
> > > > > > your observations of him. You frankly don't seem very sensitive 
> > > > > > yourself when you deal with him. And I don't really blame you given 
> > > > > > your contentious history with him, but it doesn't lead to knowing 
> > > > > > much about him beyond the insult persona you are both running 
> > > > > > toward him and getting from him. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > I will just say this: I know Barry well enough (I digress here to 
> > > > > speak specifically about him at this point) to know that no matter 
> > > > > how open or fresh or new or sensitive I were to be with him on ANY 
> > > > > subject it would be met with derision, an attempt to insult me and 
> > > > > 'get me back'. I am not made of the stuff to willingly close my eyes, 
> > > > > open my mouth and let him ladle in a spoonful of whatever he's cooked 
> > > > > up in some pot on the stove.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > < When he is made to feel inadequate he will point his finger at 
> > > > > > the other person and claim they are to blame; they are too boring 
> > > > > > or stupid or dogmatic. He will never take responsibility for 
> > > > > > himself and the reasons he feels the way he does. It will always be 
> > > > > > about the other guy.>
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Funny thing is that I could say this about Judy or Robin or Jim, 
> > > > > > plenty of people here. But the concept of taking "responsibility" 
> > > > > > for the reasons he feels the way he does is loaded with a lot of 
> > > > > > presumptions that I don't share. I think many people try to rub his 
> > > > > > nose in what they believe are his reasons for how he feels as you 
> > > > > > did above. Who would like to have their nose rubbed in that kind of 
> > > > > > unfriendly assumptiveness.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Exactly. All these two way streets we are both talking about.
> > > > > 
> > > > > >I don't. Robin is a fan of this kind of attack and if you don't 
> > > > > >cower to his self-assumed special perceptiveness it is used as 
> > > > > >evidence of some other flaw. It is a double bind mind-fuck and very 
> > > > > >unpleasant. Did you accept Barry's assumptions about your motives on 
> > > > > >FFL? Of course not and I don't think you should have. But that sword 
> > > > > >cuts both ways.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Yes, we seem to have had experiences that we have both found 
> > > > > unpleasant with people here at FFL. So at this point I am not sure 
> > > > > where we are going with this fact. On the one hand you are telling me 
> > > > > I should not make presumptions about someone's motivation while at 
> > > > > the same time you are indicating just such presumptions of your own, 
> > > > > which is fine but you can't have it both ways. You feel, and you are 
> > > > > perfectly welcome to do so, that Robin has motives of:
> > > > > 
> > > > > "attack"
> > > > > "an intention to make you cower to his self-assumed special 
> > > > > perceptiveness"
> > > > > "to create a double bind mind-fuck"
> > > > > 
> > > > > Unless I am very much mistaken you have just ascribed internal, 
> > > > > personal motivations for what you feel Robin has tried or has, in 
> > > > > fact succeeded, in doing to you and Barry. And maybe he has, for sure 
> > > > > he has in your experience. But you see how easy it is to make 
> > > > > assumptions about people and their motives? 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > >He just calls it as he sees it and moves on. His blasts are not 
> > > > > > > >an opening for a dialogue, they are just projections of his POV, 
> > > > > > > >more writing exercise than conversation.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Exactly.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > If you look at the list of people who have received such 
> > > > > > > > attention they often have some similar traits that Barry is 
> > > > > > > > outspoken about not respecting or liking. I have a very good 
> > > > > > > > idea of his POV from his pieces contrary to your perspective. 
> > > > > > > > If a new poster showed up here today I could probably predict 
> > > > > > > > with good accuracy how Barry would react to them. It was easy 
> > > > > > > > to predict that you were not gunna be friends. 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Yes, I will give you that. Barry IS predictable. Ridiculously so. 
> > > > > > > This is a man who lives in a world that is bound and known and 
> > > > > > > very limited. He can only venture so far with a person - new 
> > > > > > > acquaintance or old. When he hits the property line, where the 
> > > > > > > boundaries end, he stops dead. And those boundaries are those 
> > > > > > > determined by his own limitations of self. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I disagree with this assessment. Barry does not live in a world 
> > > > > > that is bound or limited, quite the contrary, he has traveled a lot 
> > > > > > of very interesting roads and continues to. I don't know anyone who 
> > > > > > has moved their life to more places since I have known them. He is 
> > > > > > perfectly comfortable dropping in to a country with a new language 
> > > > > > every few years and adapting to the local culture. And he has 
> > > > > > certainly been down more spiritual paths than most here. Can you 
> > > > > > really say he has a more limited world than people here who have 
> > > > > > never traveled as he has, or exposed to just TM for 
> > > > > > self-development?
> > > > > 
> > > > > I say that a man does not necessarily reflect the same expansive 
> > > > > vision, understanding of either his inner state or his outer state 
> > > > > nor does he automatically become the personal equivalent of any vast 
> > > > > worldly travels. Someone could have circumnavigated the world 
> > > > > multiple times and investigated a hundred spiritual paths and still 
> > > > > be more bound than the man who has lived his entire life in one city. 
> > > > > Maybe there is something to that old chestnut, "Knowledge is 
> > > > > structured in consciousness" after all.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Limited? Not in my opinion. The diversity of his exposure and the 
> > > > > > lack of his limits is the most interesting thing about him for me. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > So your statements probably do apply to you. You may not have 
> > > > > > > > the ability to see where he is coming from and he seems hidden 
> > > > > > > > from you. 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I don't think so Curtis. Many people have pretty good ideas of 
> > > > > > > how Barry functions but Robin's today took the proverbial cake; 
> > > > > > > it was far and away the most sophisticated reading of the man and 
> > > > > > > one that you might have a chance of comprehending but Barry never 
> > > > > > > will for, if he could, it would disprove what Robin wrote and 
> > > > > > > what I have just said. Not that we said or are saying the same 
> > > > > > > thing.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I comprehended it, and appreciate your confidence that I might be 
> > > > > > able to. I didn't find it sophisticated,at all, it was Robin 
> > > > > > routine 101, and since I spent some time as its target, it is quite 
> > > > > > familiar. With your background I'm surprised you don't see it as 
> > > > > > formulaic. But then you think Judy is brilliant and have said so 
> > > > > > many times, so I think we have different standards we are applying 
> > > > > > in that area. Robin is obscuring very simple concepts in a word 
> > > > > > flood. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > There are so many kinds of intelligence Curtis. You have this 
> > > > > intelligence of music and that intelligence is bound to the 
> > > > > intelligence of the heart which encompasses passion and dedication (a 
> > > > > kind of lesser devotion). You and I know there are more kinds of 
> > > > > intelligence than we need to list here. Judy has a keen sort of 
> > > > > intelligence; she is accurate and organized and methodical in many 
> > > > > ways. That intelligence can be sharp
> > >
> > 
> >
>


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