The topic is TM-style enlightenment, and while you have a point about parroting, the first report of enlightened TMers was from a psychologist reporting about 6 of his patients, TMers all, who were complaining of a permanent depersonalization with no issues other than intellectual confusion as to why their "I" was completely uninvolved with thinking, feeling, acting, remembering, etc.
The report prompted the DMS-IV to add a spiritual/religious exception to the diagnosis of depersonalization disorder. The fact that the patients had forgotten, or didn't make the connection, between their state and the CC state in TM theory, suggests that it is a natural progression due to TM practice, rather than expectations. A more recent study looked at non-TMers who happened to be world champion/national champion athletes (compete at the national level and consistently score in teh top 10) vs non-champion athletes at the same level (compete in the same competitions but never break the 50% mark) and found that the champions tended to score midway between teh short-term TMers and the enlightened TMers on both their EEG and their descriptions of self. This also supports the theory that the TM-style enlightenment is a natural thing, leading to similar descriptions of the state, regardless of your spiritual background (none of the athletes did TM or other meditation techniques). L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <noozguru@...> wrote: > > And where's the group that practiced other meditation programs? Also TM > people start sounding like parrots of stuff they learned from SCI, > rounding courses, etc. They can't seem to put their experiences in their > own words. > > On 07/16/2013 11:39 PM, sparaig wrote: > > People respond to the interview question "Describe your self," in different > > ways, depending on the physiological state of their nervous system. > > > > Researchers on the effects of Transcendental Meditation asked for people > > who had been practicing TM who were reporting a certain kind of experience > > -- ["pure > > consciousness"](http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/content/44/2/133.full.pdf) > > -- as a permanent trait outside of meditation practice, to respond to that > > question, and correlated their answers with physiological measures. > > > > They did the same with 2 other groups of people, people who had never > > learned TM but wanted to, and people who had been practicing TM for several > > years, but didn't report permanent pure consciousness outside of meditation > > or very frequently during. > > > > Researchers than correlated the answers to the question with the > > physiological measures, and established a "Brain Integration Scale," with > > the > > [psychological](http://www.totalbrain.ch/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/eeg-of-enlightenment.pdf) > > and > > [physiological](http://www.totalbrain.ch/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/brain-integration-progress-report.pdf) > > measurements of the first group clustered to the right, and the > > psychological/physiological responses of the no-meditation group to the > > left. The "non-enlightened" meditators tended to be less experienced than > > the right-most group, and clustered their responses/EEG in the middle. > > > > The responses to the question were roughly in three categories, ranging > > from very "object referral" to very abstract "self referral": > > > > . > > > > **Non-TM Group: Self is identified with thoughts, feelings, and actions** > > > > N1: I guess I'm open to new experiences, and I tend to appreciate those > > things that are different > > > > N2: I kind of like to forge my own way > > > > N3: I am open to change and new ideas. . . I'm an adventuress. I like to go > > out. . .and experiment with new ideas > > > > N4: I tend to appreciate those things that are different, even in my style > > of dress. I like something usually because its odd or strange or something > > that other people absolutely wouldnÃt wear > > > > N5: I'm happy, caring, helpful, I like people who like to help other > > people; I hate seeing anyone in trouble > > > > . > > > > **Short-Term group: Self is the director of thoughts, feelings, and > > actions** > > > > S1: I'm my own awareness. My ability to perceive and be aware. I'm my own > > potential, my own power, > > > > S2: I'm my own capabilities; my ability to learn; my ability to do things. > > . . in it's essential nature��"my ability to act > > > > S3: There are many different levels to who I am. I'm a sister, a daughter, > > a friend, an athlete, a nature lover, a seeker of the truth. I'm a very > > spiritual person. I believe that I can do and accomplish anything that I > > set my mind to > > > > S4: I am a little bit more silent, more reserved, and thoughtful than most, > > with a deep desire to just succeed in all activities and at the same time > > to develop spiritually very quickly > > > > S5: Who I am is who I am inside. How I think. What I believe. How I feel. > > How I react > > > > . > > > > **Long-term Group: Self is independent of and underlying thoughts, > > feelings, and actions** > > > > L1: We ordinarily think my self as this age; this color of hair; these > > hobbies . . . my experience is that my Self is a lot larger than that. It's > > immeasurably vast. . . on a physical level. It is not just restricted to > > this physical environment > > > > L2: It's the ââI am-ness.ââ It's my Being. There's just a channel > > underneath that's just underlying everything. It's my essence there and it > > just doesn't stop where I stop. . . by ââI,ââ I mean this 5 ft. 2 > > person that moves around here and there > > > > > > L3: I look out and see this beautiful divine Intelligence. . . you could > > say in the sky, in the tree, but really being expressed through these > > things. . . and these are my Self > > > > L3: I experience myself as being without edges or content. . . beyond the > > universe. . . all-pervading, and being absolutely thrilled, absolutely > > delighted with every motion that my body makes. With everything that my > > eyes see, my ears hear, my nose smells. There's a delight in the sense that > > I am able to penetrate that. My consciousness, my intelligence pervades > > everything I see, feel and think > > > > L5: When I say ââIââ that's the Self. There's a quality that is so > > pervasive about the Self that I'm quite sure that the ââIââ is the > > same ââIââ as everyone else's ââI.ââ Not in terms of what > > follows right after. I am tall, I am short, I am fat, I am this, I am that. > > But the ââIââ part. The ââI amââ part is the same ââI > > amââ for you and me > > > > . > > > > . > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu <noozguru@> wrote: > >> This is the crux of what enlightenment is about. Those who are > >> experiencing it don't experience localized awareness unless it is > >> demanded (like a bill or tax collector comes knocking). The experience > >> is like "you don't exist." > >> > >> On 07/16/2013 10:17 AM, turquoiseb wrote: > >>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn wrote: > >>>> So, *you* don't exist? I have the hardest time with this concept. > >>>> *Who* posted what you posted? > >>>> ________________________________ > >>>> From: "doctordumbass@" doctordumbass@ > >>>> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 10:01 AM > >>>> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: "I create my reality" Yeah, right... > >>>> > >>>> Her: > >>>> Beliefs (b) + Thoughts (t) + feelings (f) = Internal Reality (IR) > >>>> > >>>> Circumstances (c) + people (p) = External Reality (ER) > >>>> > >>>> Me: > >>>> Silence = (Internal) Reality > >>>> > >>>> All the stuff moving around in the silence = (External) Reality > >>>> > >>>> That's the difference. She is still operating on the assumption that > >>>> *she* primarily exists. > >>>> > >>>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: > >>>>> Doc, I think she addresses both of these issues when she writes > >>> about noticing thoughts and feelings rather than trying to change them, > >>> get rid of them, etc. I think in the Buddhist tradition noticing is a > >>> way of quieting the mind. And she doesn't say to only notice one kind of > >>> thought or feeling. I don't see how you and she disagree. > >>>>> ________________________________ > >>>>> From: "doctordumbass@" doctordumbass@ > >>>>> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 4:03 AM > >>>>> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: "I create my reality" Yeah, right... > >>>>> > >>>>> I personally think she is full of it. *Of course* our thoughts > >>> create our reality. Not just the positive, affirmative ones, but all of > >>> the thoughts. > >>>>> Most people have a non-stop mind, like yours. It is the spinning and > >>> looping of energy that creates most of the resonance in a non-stop mind. > >>> This then leads to their reality, WHETHER THAT IS THEIR INTENTION, OR > >>> NOT. > >>>>> The issue she is talking about is owning certain thoughts and > >>> intentions, and subconsciously disavowing others. But she is clueless > >>> enough about her inner state of mind, resulting in this ego-based > >>> drivel. > >>>>> More excellent evidence that you don't know yourself very well, if > >>> you agreed with this half-baked article. > >>>>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > >>>>>> A friend posted this to another forum. I do not know > >>>>>> the author or even of her, but I thought much of it > >>>>>> was a breath of fresh air in the often stale cyber- > >>>>>> chatrooms of New Age thought. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Let's see what people here think of it: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> http://www.elephantjournal.com/2013/07/your-thoughts-do-not-create-your-\ > >>> reality-stupid/ > >>> > > > > >
