--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> Ann, I wish I had written this incisive analysis. You
> have done the impossible: You have actually managed to
> nail Jell-O to the wall.












>
> Deep bow.
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ann" awoelflebater@ wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for taking the time to re-answer this. I was originally
asking the Almighty Barry for his feedback but I appreciate yours. Let's
see if I can make any sense of it and, in turn, offer something that
appeals to your sensibility.
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius" 
wrote:
> > >
> > > ---awoelflebater wrote (July 27):
> > >
> > > > Teacher, teacher, my hand is up, pick me.
> > >
> > > > *What can you say about the button pushers of the world?
> > >
> > > Probably not much. Because the human nervous system responds to
situations in a stimulus response pattern, basically all our activity
revolves around button pushing. You are just codifying certain types of
stimulus response that functions at a more mentally conceptual level and
which you interpret as annoying.
> >
> > You see, here is the most important point. Barry has only pushed my
"buttons" once. That is when he was foaming at the mouth about "stupid
cunts". Other than that he only imagines he pushes my buttons. I have
very sticky buttons that are not only tricky to find but trickier to
actually depress. So all this time he claims he is pushing buttons but I
am sorry to have to admit to him that this is not so. I don't ever take
Barry personally nor do I take him seriously therefore I am immune to
him. But, as with anyone, if he becomes a big enough asshole I will call
him on it because that is what I do.
> > >
> > > > *What motivates them?
> > >
> > > Don't know. Desire is pretty spontaneous, it wells up inside and
then takes form. Motivation is a post hoc attempt to explain this
particularly defined annoying behaviour. There could be many
explanations. Perhaps a person wants attention; or just wants to see
what happens; or maybe is unaware to a large extent of how what they do
affects others.
> >
> > You may be right. Whatever it is, it is an indicator of something. I
imagine that if people get off pushing, or imagining they are pushing,
the buttons of others that it is just a form of sadism. It is also a
clue that this person thinks they can control and that other people are
controllable. This, in turn, makes me think button pushers are bullies
or have been bullied.
> > >
> > > > *What overriding character trait must a button pusher possess in
order to want to push people's buttons?
> > >
> > > They must have a human nervous system, but 'character trait' is an
attempt to create a definition for a certain kind of behaviour.
> >
> > "Character trait" is simply describing or attributing a
characteristic of someone's actions to something else. You can play the
objective, disassociated party all you want Xeno, but bottom line,
different people have different characters and different traits that go
along with those characters. We are not some nebulous, miasma floating
around in some indefinable goo. We have edges and colours and
definition. On some level we are not just some abstract Absolute; a part
of us actually exists and functions and has substance.
> >
> >  >In the US, Democrats push Republican buttons and vice versa. You
could reverse the argument and ask what character trait does a button
pushee have that allows them to get their buttons pushed? Among these
would be a characteristic that one possess a system of belief that does
not accurately represent reality. When a discrepancy in this
conglomerate of beliefs is pointed out, the button gets pushed. There
are also non-conceptual buttons, such as being tickled if you are
ticklish. I think the main characteristic falls on we who get our
buttons pushed. By blaming someone else, we don't have to clean our own
house.
> >
> > Come onnnn. You are human, are you not? I mean, I think you are but
you don't act human at least half of the time. You speak in complete
abstractions. These abstractions, in turn, end up being meaningless
because they aren't actually focused or therefore relevant. You also
seem to believe that if someone reacts or even interacts with another
that somehow this indicates that their buttons have been pushed. This is
simply not so. Just because some people can be odiously assholish
doesn't mean they have pushed buttons. It means they probably prompted
someone to call them on their lying or their misrepresentation or their
shortsightedness. There are those who exist to try and piss others off
as if this is somehow a worthy cause. I guess I need a definition of
"button" from you because it seems like you are perceiving anyone who
takes exception to lies or rudeness is somehow to blame for something.
Take a look at your last sentence in the paragraph above.
> > >
> > > Button pushing does get out of hand in human civilisation. War is
the best example. The divergence in conceptual thinking is so great, the
only way to eliminate it is to remove one or both sides of the equation.
Look at what happened recently in Egypt.
> >
> > I would venture to say that the escalation toward war would be best
described as something other than "button pushing". There has to be a
far more powerful set of forces congealing together in order to
crescendo into what we define as war. Pushing buttons is the stuff of
web forums and schoolyards.
> > >
> > > > *Does a button pusher ever admit to themselves that perhaps what
they call button pushing is merely an unsavoury character trait
possessed by the button pusher that others take a disliking to?
> > >
> > > Maybe they do and maybe they do not. But by putting the onus on
another person, you do not see that it takes two to tango.
> >
> > Not always. There is often the instigator, the one who begins the
volley. What the other does with the ball that lands in their court is
something else. There can be an onus; life is not always this hazy, grey
indefinable mush as you seem to indicate here. People really can offend,
can splatter a bag of shit in someone's face. Theoretical is not real
life, Xeno.
> > >
> > > > *Is this 'reaction' ever valid or warranted by the pushees?
> > >
> > > First of all it happens. What happens and how the pushee responds
and evaluates, and how the pushee feels their response is warranted or
valid depends on their internal world view. The button pusher probably
does not share that world view, and in their mind, the stimulus is both
warranted and valid.
> >
> > Perhaps. I think some button pushers just do it because it makes
them happy, gives them smug satisfaction. Button pushers must lack
excitement, stimulation in their lives as evidenced by the fact that
they have to create petty drama and draw attention to themselves as a
result. In Barry's case he sucks it towards himself then pretends he
isn't getting off on it. He is constantly masterbating under the covers.
> > >
> > > > *And finally teacher, what does is say about a person who sits
by and allows others to throw shit around the room and not get up and at
least leave or, better still, confront the shit thrower?
> > >
> > > Some of us are our brother's keeper, and some of us are not. It is
a fluid social situation. This situation does not exist if the stimulus
response is restricted to just the two - the button pusher, and the
person with buttons. The people closest to you, like family, probably
know more about how to push your buttons than anyone. When there is a
group, battle lines may be drawn. It tends to happen here on FFL.
> >
> > I am not sure how this relates to my question.
> > >
> > > The tendency to defend another may be a function of how
defenseless a button pushee is in relation to those who push. When I was
in middle school, there was a retarded kid who would get flack from the
bully types. I felt a tendency to get between them and at the very least
not make fun of the kid, which is actually difficult at that age - peer
pressure and all. I think the family of that boy wanted him to go to
school in as normal an environment as possible, or perhaps could not
afford a special school. It must have been some kind of special
dispensation, because the boy could not perform at the grade level he
had been placed in.
> > >
> > > Even if we fail, the onus is on us to be a strong as possible in
the face of adversity.
> > >
> > > If worse comes to worse, you just have to kill the bastard(s) or
die yourself. (Sometimes they are bitches.)
> >
> > Well, I think in this situation (we are only talking about Barry,
after all) that won't be necessary. A well placed jab to the
metaphorical solar plexus is all that's usually required.
> > >
> >
>

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