Not sure what, if anything, this has to do with the post of mine you're responding to, but you need to get your facts straight: Robin wasn't trying to "take over" the TM movement; rather, he wanted Maharishi's approval to make some reforms and additions/modifications to the TM teaching (including the TM-Sidhi techniques). Ann could tell you more about that; but what I understand from his own writings is that he felt Maharishi's knowledge wasn't being presented effectively at MIU. Robin was certain Maharishi would back him up (as he's explained here in some detail), but that didn't happen, and Robin had to get out of Dodge.
I never made any objections to "studying" Robin's interactions with the TMO, BTW. But it doesn't seem to me that they'd be of more than mild interest even to cult scholars Don't know how much of the "court transcripts" would be that fascinating either. Again as I understand it, the lawsuits had to do primarily with Robin's claim that MIU's actions in excommunicating or otherwise sanctioning the students who became involved with his group, and prohibiting him and his group from proselytizing on campus, were detrimental to his business. Much more interesting than the legal wrangling, I should think, would be the content of the proselytizing and Robin's tactics in implementing it. Frankly, I don't think you've paid enough attention to what Robin (and Ann and a couple of others) wrote on FFL about those days to have a clear idea of what's worth studying and what isn't. I seriously doubt any academic theses will be written on the court transcripts. But my real objection, as I thought I'd made clear, was to the application of mental health diagnoses to Robin, as he was then and is now (but especially now), by folks who are eminently unqualified to do so. Buck wrote: > The TM-Robin Carlsen court transcripts are proly someone's academic thesis > in the future for modern example of someone by personality coming broadside > to try to take over an existing group or movement. Historically sort of like > Count Leon did with George Rapp and the experience of fragmentation in the > Harmonists where you get the battle of character playing out in a spiritual > group by personality. It is really interesting story that one can see in > life and also learn to recognize as you go along. Seems very much part of > any of our adaptation in doing groups and dealing with the aspect of > charismatic leadership of whatever personality. > Practically this is sort of like, how far do you let someone run on with > their seeming mystical associations before you pull them up short? Is that even up to you? (Unless the person is interfering with your rights to live your life as you choose.) I might remind you that there's more than one FFL participant who thinks you need to be "pulled up short." > Like this guy who evidently is extremely clever showing up last week in > Fairfield trying to figure things out and get a foothold. It's noteworthy in > the field of study of mysticism and communal spiritual movements. What is > reality and what is mental illness in the range of things? Engraved gold > plates and angels? -Buck in the Dome That question is way premature given the very little you've told us about this guy and how recently this has come up. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Buck wrote: > Whatutalking about? Robin Carlsen is a very interesting chapter in TM. He > and TM are going to be studied > by historical and social-science scholars for a long time to come. Maybe, maybe not. This was 30 years or so ago now, and there has been hardly any evidence of any such studying of Robin in connection with TM so far. > > I guess that makes you and some others > > who went off with him part of TM that way too. That is okay. If nothing > > else the court transcripts will > > always be part of the study of TM. No need to get defensive. I am glad > > you turned up here on FFL to > > share your experience with it too. It is very interesting, -Buck What's most interesting, it seems to me, is the difference between what we know of Robin in his cult days, from Ann and a couple of others who were around him then, and what we know of Robin firsthand from his presence on FFL in the past couple of years. No study of Robin's psychopathology, such as it may have been decades ago, would be complete if it didn't take that very striking difference into account. Yet Barry, who did not know Robin 30-some years ago, labeled him as having NPD based on Robin's participation on FFL. Take another look at the NPD characteristics that were mysteriously posted here. Many of them do fit the picture of Robin we have from those who knew him back then, but almost none of them fit his behavior on FFL. Yet according to Barry, NPD is incurable even with professional therapy (which Robin never had; any change in his behavior was due to his own efforts). That would appear to call in question whether Robin had NPD even in his WTS days. Ann is quite right to rebuke those who would apply a mental health diagnosis to Robin, either then or now, when they have no qualifications to do so. Especially when they have a marked tendency to try to affix the NPD label to anybody on FFL they don't like (and in Barry's case on Maharishi as well, as I pointed out--but at least Barry actually knew Maharishi many years ago). Buck wrote: > > > > NPD Heads-up. Seems there is a guy and a follower who showed up in > > > > town in the last few days with these kinds of traits. Tells a good > > > > story, really smart but incredibly manipulative and evidently abusive > > > > with the younger follower. Lot like that other guy that used to post > > > > here. I sent this new guy on to find the afternoon Fairfield illumined > > > > experience banana-gram group. I think they have the resources to deal > > > > with him safely and will appreciate him a lot. Ann wrote: > > > I would think FF would be used to all sorts of crazy pseudo gurus making > > > their way around the town square. Probably a good portion of residents > > > there figured themselves some sort of teacher or capable of some special > > > ability like speaking to animals, channeling angels or otherwise having > > > their enlightened fingers on the pulse of what's-happenin'-now. Just one > > > more of these dudes hitching his cow pony to the tie-up rail in front of > > > Revelations surely is not cause for concern. Of course, a rousing game > > > of Bananagrams always did separate the men from the boys (or the avatars > > > from the plebs). > > > Now on the subject of NPD and Robin I think this subject has been > > > bandied about long enough. Neither you nor Barry has the beginnings of > > > an inkling of what makes that man tick and most of us here would > > > appreciate it if you would leave the negative and inappropriate labels > > > where they belong - in the textbooks or in the hands of those who might > > > have a clue.
