Re "The Pope doesn't need a Ph.D. in economics to make use of that 

 Unfortunately he does!

 Look, this from Wiki: Singapore has a market-based economy - one of the freest 
and most business-friendly. According to the Corruption Perceptions Index, 
Singapore is consistently ranked as one of the least-corrupt countries in the 
world, along with New Zealand and the Scandinavian countries. Singapore has the 
lowest infant mortality rate in the world for the past two decades. Life 
expectancy in Singapore is 80 for males and 85 for females, placing the country 
4th in the world for life expectancy. Almost the whole population has access to 
improved water and sanitation facilities. There are fewer than 10 annual deaths 
from HIV per 100,000 people. Adult obesity is below 10%.

 Surely to God it's at least *possible* that a let-it-rip capitalist model 
could bring greater benefits to the populace than a top-down state-controlled 
economy? If it's possible then it's not unreasonable for people to push for a 
such a system without them necessarily being greedy rich pigs. And so without 
them necessarily being on the side of the Antichrist. 

 Keep religion free from dogmatic economic positions seems a sensible approach 
to me.

---In, <authfriend@...> wrote:

 Well, but the principles don't change. A poor person is  a poor person is a 
poor person no matter what century they live in or under what kind of economic 
system. Nobody's suggesting Jesus was preaching socialism qua socialism or 
against capitalism qua capitalism. That's a red herring. He was preaching in 
favor of generosity and against selfish greed.

 The point is to relieve poverty no matter what the cause. These days, the 
cause tends to be the greed of the masters of the capitalist system.

 Sounds like the pope has been reading (Nobel Prize-winning economist) Paul 
Krugman in the NYTimes. He makes the same point about there being no evidence 
for trickle-down economics. If it worked, there should be; it's been tried long 
enough. The pope doesn't need a Ph.D. in economics to make use of that 




 ---In, <s3raphita@...> wrote:

 Re "And I could cite a busload of Jesus' expressions of concern for the poor 
and oppressed. Plus one in particular about how hard it is for the rich person 
to get into Heaven.":

 I'm with him on the rich! Some things never change.
 But Jesus was a first-century rabbi so could have no idea of the later 
development of industrialisation, capitalism, welfare states and globalisation. 
It is as ridiculous to wonder what a first-century person would decide pro or 
anti socialism as it is to wonder what a  first-century person would decide on 
which car to buy, or if a first-century person would prefer Copernican or 
pre-Copernican astronomy.

 For Christ's sake - he didn't even know he was living in the first century! ;-)


 ---In, <authfriend@...> wrote:

 Sounds to me as if he's an expert in human nature.

 And I could cite a busload of Jesus' expressions of concern for the poor and 
oppressed. Plus one in particular about how hard it is for the rich person to 
get into Heaven.

 I don't think you've got a winner of an argument here, Seraphita.

Seraphita wrote:

 The Pope said “some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which 
assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably 
succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This 
opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and 
naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power.

 So is the Pope now an expert on economics (the dismal science)? "Trickle-down" 
theories could be wrong - but they could be right. It is surely possible to be 
a pious Christian and either support or oppose socialism. When popes claim that 
one or the other side is right they get dangerously close to claiming that 
supporters of the side they oppose are not true Christians - and so not saved.

 Jesus would be turning in His grave - if He hadn't risen.

 ---In, <emptybill@...> wrote:

 Email HIM. Offer to evangelize the Tantrika-s. Maybe he'll offer to make you a 
socialist proselyte and then, if you are successful, a bishop. 


 ---In, <noozguru@...> wrote:

 BTW, those folks over on Infowars have a tendency to contradict themselves.  
They were talking about the riots at stores Thanksgiving Evening and saying 
that "individualism" would prevent that.  WRONG.  In fact much of the dialectic 
on Infowars is for the "we" people.  They like to point to the BBC documentary 
"Century of the Self" which is about how the "me" society was created and how 
destructive it has been.  And you can't have much of a revolution with a bunch 
of "me" people.
 They also thought that if the crowd would be this bad over cheap goods how 
much worse would they be fighting over food?  Hurricane Sandy rather disproved 
 That crowd is often a group out of sync with themselves. 
 On 11/30/2013 02:50 PM, emptybill@... mailto:emptybill@... wrote:
   Who could imagine ... Bhari2 and EmilyMaybeNot should now be satisfied.
 Trouble is Bhari2 is a Tantrika. So the "Holy Father" and the "Congregation 
for the Doctrine of the Faith" will require him to repent his Hindoo errors. 
Repent now and profess the truth! ... "You didn't make that!". 
 Convert now to the true faith. Admit that you are not God but are the 




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