which shrine?
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 1/16/14, doctordumb...@rocketmail.com <doctordumb...@rocketmail.com>
wrote:
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostasy, is a terrible thing.
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, January 16, 2014, 12:02 AM
MJ, the next time I go to a TM facility I will
let you know, and we can compare notes. Don't hold your
breath - it has been a decade and a half, for me, so far,
with no particular urge apparent. I did visit a Catholic
shrine last summer - that was definitely a religious place.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mjackson74@...>
wrote:
then how do you
account for the focus on yagyas, which are Hindu religious
ceremonies, the continual focus on celebrating all the Hindu
religious holidays and the act of the TMO leaders refering
to themselves as rajas and continuing to both practice and
promote a somewhat westernized form of Hinduism? Some,
including the former skin boy I spoke with characterize the
technique itself as a Hindu devotional practice designed to
gain the favor of higher powers (gods and goddesses) and as
such it really isn't a proper meditation unless you
consider the devotional practice to be a meditation.
Regardless of how it was presented by M, the technique
remains a Hindu devotional practice and with all the other
Hindu accoutrements that are draped all around the 20 mins.
twice a day, I don't see how you can't see that M
and the current TMO leaders have made it into a religion.
Of course, one's perception guides all things, and if
you don't perceive TM to be a religion, then it
isn't for you, but that seems to be a bit of
compartmentalization to me.
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 1/15/14, doctordumbass@...
<doctordumbass@...>
wrote:
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostasy, is a terrible
thing.
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, January 15, 2014, 5:10 PM
How could TM possibly be a
religion?? It is, after all, a technique which leads to
fulfillment, of the goals, of ALL the religions, IF one is
willing to put in the hard work, and dedication necessary.
Fear and bitterness are all I see as the drivers of this
stupidity [equating TM to religion]. It is like referring
to
a kitchen knife as "a murder weapon", when all
it
is used for, in real life, is chopping carrots.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
<dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote:
Thanks, Turqb.
Nice substantial writing even as I can't agree
with you I do appreciate the thought. Almost missed
your post for all
the personal ankel-biting macros that get posted
here.
-Buck
---In
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
<turquoiseb@...>
wrote:
---
In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
Michael Jackson wrote:
>
> of course they are lying about it - that's their
stock in trade
The sadder
reality, Michael, one that you may not be aware of from
personal experience (or may...that is for you to say) is
that they *aren't* lying. Except to themselves.
One of the aspects of the disciple mindset (or cult
mindset
if you prefer) is that people who have bought into a
shitload of dogma laid on them by teachers they now revere
almost as infallible and as near-gods (think MMY) have an
incredible way of *just never thinking about* anything
that
contradicts that dogma. They stuff any contradictions or
cognitive dissonance away back in a corner of their minds
--
literally "out of sight, out of mind."
So technically many of these people are *not* lying --
consciously -- when they say that TM is not a religion,
often only a couple of hours after leaving a
"celebration" at MUM in which they chanted and
made offerings to Hindu gods. They push the dogma
they've been told to repeat -- and which they
desperately *need* to be true to keep up their allegiance
to
this org/cause they've been told is so important --
and
they just hide the cognitive dissonance away in the back
of
their minds and never acknowledge it.
I have sadly been there, done that. Both in the TMO and in
the Rama trip, so I know it's not only possible, but
probable for *most* of the TM Teachers repeating the
"TM is not a religion" meme they've been
taught to repeat. I myself repeated the "TM is 100%
life-supporting and cannot possibly have any negative
characteristics" even *while* assigned to the
"Twitching Group" in Fiuggi, surrounded by
dozens
of people like myself experiencing non-stop jerks and
spasms
and symptoms that looked for all the world like a viral
outbreak of Tourette's Syndrome. It took *years* --
after hearing of a number of suicides and seeing people
wind
up in mental hospitals after long TM courses -- before I
became open enough to recognize that I'd been lying to
myself, and thus to others. I *wanted* to believe the
"no negative side effects" meme, so I managed to
blot out recognition and acknowledgement of anything that
suggested it wasn't true.
I would suspect that many of the people still clinging to
the "TM is not a religion" meme are doing the
same
thing. A few may indeed be consciously aware of the
reality
and be lying about it, but my bet is that many are still
so
stuck in the cult mindset that they feel they *have* to
believe what they were told to believe, and *have* to
repeat
it every time the question comes up.
Yes, it boggles the mind, but that is the nature of the
cult
mindset. People who had to learn and memorize the English
translation of the TM puja and "hold it lively in
their
minds" every time they chanted the Sanskrit version
of
it will look you straight in the eyes and call it a
"non-religious, traditional ceremony." *Some*
part
of them knows that they're lying, but it's a part
they can never admit into their conscious awareness.
It's really weird, but it happens every day, in pretty
much every religion, spiritual organization, and cult in
the
world. It even happens in business. I remember a
documentary
about activists who were tried in court for staging a
demonstration at a General Electric plant back in (I
think)
the 60s. The screenplay was largely drawn from transcripts
of the actual trials, and thus the under-oath testimony of
workers at the plant, *dozens* of whom claimed that they
didn't know what they were building in that GE plant.
"We just worked there," they all said, claiming
that they had no idea that they were working in the
largest
manufacturing facility for atomic weapons in the world.
Every morning they walked in through a main entrance hall
in
which was prominently displayed the nosecone of an Atlas
missile, and yet they claimed that they didn't know
what
they were building megadeath every day on their assembly
lines.
Go figure. That's the cult mindset for you -- protect
the myths, protect the memes, protect the image of the
group
that pays you or that you owe allegiance to, hide your own
everyday lies by hiding the truth even from yourself, way
down deep in parts of your mind that you never allow to
surface. That's what I think is going on when any TM
Teacher these days claims that the TMO is not a religious
organization. They're not necessarily lying to you;
they're lying to themselves.
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 1/15/14, anartaxius@... anartaxius@... wrote:
>
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Apostasy, is a terrible
thing.
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 15, 2014, 4:58 AM
>
> 'Apostasy is the
> formal disaffiliation from or abandonment or
renunciation of
> a religion by a person. One who commits apostasy is
known as
> an apostate.'
> As I never was the member of
> any religion, I cannot ever be correctly accused of
> apostasy. As the TM org claims it is not a religion,
so no
> one can ever be correctly accused for disafilliating
or
> abandoning TM as apostasy (unless of course the TM
org
is
> lying about that claim).
