Judy, can you say in a nutshell what other kind of union with God there is, 
besides ontological?





On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 11:11 AM, "authfri...@yahoo.com" 
<authfri...@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
  
You have to look carefully at the notion of "union with God" to know whether 
the phrase embraces ontological union. For the Judeo-Christian-Islamic 
religions, that's a bridge too far, but the distinction can be subtle until you 
get really deep into the theology and examine the question very specifically. I 
doubt Sufism crosses that bridge, and I'm quite sure Kabbalah does not. Any 
sect that asserted the possibility of ontological union would be distinctly 
heretical with regard to the established doctrine of the "mother" religion.

<< I think all of these systems have sects, for example the Sufis in Islam, 
that believe that there can be union between God and human. Maybe also the 
Kabbalists in Judaism? >>





On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 10:22 AM, "authfriend@..." <authfriend@...> wrote:

 
You aren't disagreeing just with Robin, but with all of Christianity, Judaism, 
and Islam, for which the notion of ontological union with God is blatantly 
heretical.

You're entitled to your opinion that they're all wrong about that.

<< Judy, this "general impossibility" is where I disagree with Robin. As I say 
in the rest of my post. I think, based on my reading of what people have 
written, I think ontological union with God or life has occurred in some 
individuals.


I realized this morning that in the context of this discussion and for me, it 
doesn't matter whether Robin calls his previous state enlightenment or delusion 
or both. What matters is that
I think, based on what I've read and heard about others who followed an Eastern 
system, for example, Nisargadatta, that enlightenment, etc. has occurred. >>




On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 9:54 AM, "authfriend@..." <authfriend@...> wrote:

 
Robin was talking about the enlightenment Maharishi describes. Don't know what 
he'd say about other types of "very, very high states of human development," 
except for the general impossibility of ontological union with God (per the 
doctrines of the Judeo-Christian religions).


<< I think enlightenment, or a very, very high state of human development, and 
without delusion
or possession, has occurred in Native Americans, shamans, tantrics, Taoists, 
Buddhists, Sufis, Christians, Jews and atheists. 


I think it included "ontological union" with what some people call God, but 
which I think could also be called life. I think it has occurred in people like 
Byron Katie and Eckhart Tolle who had no spiritual tradition at all. 


Finally I think it has occurred in some people who followed
an Eastern tradition. I think it did not include delusion or possession. I 
think it lasted. I think it included ontological union with God or, for the 
atheists, life.

Now for the scientists: I think if we wired such individuals up to an fMRI 
machine, I think we would find that 99% of their
brain was functioning in a very, very healthy way.

This is what I've been attempting to say these last few days. And yes, I 
recognize that it's been gripping me!
Why? To honor the possibility and actuality of a very, very high state of human 
development. >>





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