Against
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On Wed, 2/19/14, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com <dhamiltony...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Is TM a Cult?
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, February 19, 2014, 1:18 AM
Dear FFL I recently thought to
share this with you; So, I
have been in meetings in this last week with both Drs. John
Hagelin
and Bevan Morris: Instruction of new TM meditators is way
up and
growing consistently despite any bad past. As we were long
ago told,
'. .the past is a lesser state
of evolution',
this seems could be true. We are productively moving
forward. TM in
nature now as a corporate organizational movement sect
incorporating meditation, modern science and vedic science
and now in its
post-charismatic founder phase is moving manifestly forward
again in good order.
It is going well again. Will you come
with us and
move forward with us? So, are you with us or are you against us in
this?
Are you with us or are you against us moving forward? It is
time to
move forward or at the least be 'silent' and get out
of the way if
you can't actively be helpful. There is a great need
for teachers of
meditation right now in many places. The news is quite good
around
TM and spiritual regeneration using meditation, modern
science and
vedic science together in the world.
Yours in Revolution,
-U.S. Buck in the Dome
One can conceive
of gradients in spectrum of cults and sects.
Paired data-points on Cartesian axis: Like on one scale
have it run
from a low end of immoral-sociopathic-NPDisordered then to
highly
transformative moral and spiritual at the top of that
scale. That
could work for sorting individuals or movement
organizations. On the
other, 2nd axis have a scale of types of teachers or their
organizations that run from just authors or lecturers, to
sadhus,
swamis, gurus, sat gurus, jagad gurus, saints and avatars at
the top
end. X-Y axis. Draw it and then place your person
organization cult
or sect vs the type of teacher or saint. . as a dot placed
on the
graph. Knapp for instance, being in the news again here on
FFL may
appear to be down at the low of each scale on the graph.
That
placement can change according to time and event horizon
too. Even
can work to plot dynamic life-cycle of someone's
spiritual teaching
or organization through time. Play with it.
-Buck
DoctorDA writes: As far as the long time
habit, and progression, of expanding
one's awareness, through meditation, it has nothing to
do with
achieving signposts, or escaping this world, or acting like
either an
asshole or a saint. It is simply a means of discovering the
full
range of human experience, and integrating it. No robes or
sexual
exploitation, required.
Graphing Data-pairs, Charismatics and
Spiritual
movementshttp://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/370787
As Charisma:
"Weber, in an oft quoted passage, defined charisma as a certain quality of an
individual
personality, by virtue of which [s/]he is set apart from ordinary [people] and
treated as
endowed with supernatural, superhuman, or at least specifically exceptional
powers or
qualities. These are such as are not accessible to the ordinary person, but
are regarded as
of divine origin or as exemplary, and on the basis of them the individual
concerned is
treated as a leader." 1
Okay, no
charismatic leader no cult. It is just an
organization. So by more
scholarly definition evidently your feelings around the TM
movement
is that TM never quite rose up to be a cult, but was/is a
sect. No
charismatic leader, no cult. It evidently was a
movement that you were part of,-Buck
See FFL Post 370565 for a
discussion of the context of charisma, cults and
sects:https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/370565
salyavin808
writes:As far as I'm concerned it
never had a charismatic leader. Marshy's woolly,
illogical and ignorant lecturing style always left me cold.
Corporation is a good word for it though. As it sells both a
product and a belief system that makes that product seem a
lot more valuable than it actually is. Marshy's genius
is the lectures he gave that conned everyone into thinking
all the unified field, sci, land of the ved bollocks was an
ultimate truth for all mankind and that he was its natural
voice.
awoelflebater
writes:I'd have to agree with you about
MMY not being the most riveting of speakers. He was a snooze
for me but he certainly, at least, seemed like a pleasant
enough guy but hardly profound, hardly magnetic and
definitely not charismatic.
TM, more
accurately now is a [religious spiritual] sect in its
post-charismatic leader phase. As an organizational
structure it is
a corporation. Fairly, TM is no longer a cult with a
charismatic
leader. -Buck
salyavin808
writes:Potayto,
potahto.
No, most of what you are offering
as definition technically is about sects. Cults form
around charismatic persons. Sects form out of specialness,
exception or differentiation as in different denominations
of protestantism or catholicism or denominations or types of
meditation. Those are sects. Sects are around fragmentation
and cults are around persons as charismatics. For
instance, If someone really 'charismatic', like
earlier defined by Weber, like a Robin were to show up in
Fairfield, Iowa and take off a bunch of meditators as his
followers by force and power of personality then we're
talking cult, as a sect. That is different than the
different sects of people out teaching meditations and some
others out there teaching other things they've
learned.-Buck in the
Dome
Salyavin808 writes: You don't need any leader to
be a cult. All you need is a belief system that sets you
apart from the norm.
Om, policy and
movement within TM now is based much
more on science, merit and efficacy than old ways promoted
around Totakacharya-like devotion, fealty and ideology. But
that old movement way of fealty test and
ideology test is fast dying away of a necessity and become
cultural memory of a
past.
Heck TM does not
even have a charismatic leader or
leadership anymore. WE got administrators. It is kind of
hard to
have a cult without a charismatic leader that you could
point to.
That is defining of cults. Please see FFL post# 370565 .
No, people
become meditators and then freely participating in this
organization
because they like meditation and appreciate all the good
that the
transcendent meditative state provides everyone individually
and
collectively. Our meditating organization is here to
facilitate that
good. That facilitating in our case now is the work of good
in
progress by our new incorporation as meditators. Our
corporation as
it always has been is certainly about affecting a positive
revolutionary radical change in all of society for
everybody. Most
of us in TM are pretty clear about that. Are you with us or
against
us in this?-U.S. Buck in
the Dome
MJ, See
Weber's comments on 'cult' in Melton's Intro
to The
Postcharismatic Fate of New Religious
Movements:http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/370565
MJ, Your thesis
around TM being a 'cult' has a problem in
that we in TM no longer have a charismatic leader of TM. We
are
either administrators or meditators in TM and anyone in TM
is
enfranchised by a little of both under Maharishi's
Absolute Theories
of Management and Government. You clearly are full of your
own
personal BS and have your ax grinding about something.
I feels a sorrow for thee in thy lack of peace around
this.-Buck
“Which would you
rather
experience: living the paradox or understanding it to your
satisfaction?” Not either position is mutually exclusive,
or that
there is a third possibility of
both."
MJ writes:You need
to read up on what cults actually are before you make such
statements.
Nope, not a
cult. TM now as a corporation obviously
is not a cult any more than any modern productive working
corporation
of employees is a 'cult'. TM and meditators as a
community now are
just like airline corporation employee pilots of an airline
company.
And they might go fly for their work wearing funny looking
hats and
coats too where they would go to work and pilot an airliner.
And
those lesser employees too as part of the corporate team who
organize
a flight as a gate agent or direct people as flight
attendants or
load luggage or maintain the corporation equipment. TM is
as very
modern as is any corporation in 'cult' -ure, as
Maharishi himself
particularly set that in motion now. TM now is not hardly
as bad as you
portray it. It is rapidly becoming more modern and
scientific as it is of vedic origin in corporation all the
time. And we don't hardly see the gold hats and
robes around much outside of a small circle deep inside at
the top. If there is a cult it is possibly at that
level to see but you can see a lot of them avoiding the caps
and robes when they can.-Buck
MJwrites:You are right Buck, the TMO IS different now
- it is much more of a cult than it was when I started in
1974. If you can look at these idiots wearing robes and gold
crowns who practice and follow every Hindu religious
observance and holiday and not see it as a cult, then you
have been snorting too much sheep
dip.
Shame on you
MHJ. Om, First-Class Bull-Manure you
Spread Wide and Spread Thick here, MHJ. This TM now is not
a “cult”
no more as much as you might like to declare that it is. As
we used
to explain in the olde days, “Om no, TM is not a
'cult' like
christian cults or the people's-temple may be; TM is way
too
dis-organized to be that. . It's about meditation and
the evident
scientific spiritual value of meditation”. MJ, there is
something malevolent in what you do to something that is so
good in
itself as what is simply transcending meditation. In this
new
corporate-post-charismantic-era, Transcendental Meditation
is plainly
now different. Your commentary is clearly out of date. I
appreciate
that it takes a long time for the current news to travel to
the
hollers and plantations of South Carolina but clearly you
are out of
it.-Buck in the
Dome
mjackson74 writes: I
shall begin an immediate campaign to have it removed from
Whole Goods (sic) so they don't support cults.
The Transcendental Meditative
State ofConsciousness is Found Within
Restful ALERTNESS.Drink: Vedic Coffee to
Support Restful ALERTNESS!http://vediccoffee.com/
mjackson74
writes:I shall begin an immediate
campaign to have it removed from Whole Goods so they
don't support cults.
Buck
Writes:
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Drink Vedic Coffee and Support
Peace
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, February 14, 2014, 11:52
PM
The Transcendental Meditative State of
Consciousness is Found Within Restful ALERTNESS.
Drink: Vedic Coffee to Support Restful ALERTNESS!
http://vediccoffee.com/
OmO..
.
