On Wed, 2/19/14, <> wrote:

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Is TM a Cult?
 Date: Wednesday, February 19, 2014, 1:18 AM
       Dear FFL I recently thought to
 share this with you;   So, I
 have been in meetings in this last week with both Drs. John
 and Bevan Morris:  Instruction of new TM meditators is way
 up and
 growing consistently despite any bad past.  As we were long
 ago told,
 '. .the past is a lesser state
 of evolution',
 this seems could be true.  We are productively moving
 forward.  TM in
 nature now as a corporate organizational movement sect
 incorporating meditation, modern science and vedic science
 and now in its
 post-charismatic founder phase is moving manifestly forward
 again in good order.  
 It is going well again.  Will you come
 with us and
 move forward with us?  So, are you with us or are you against us in
 Are you with us or are you against us moving forward?  It is
 time to
 move forward or at the least be 'silent' and get out
 of the way if
 you can't actively be helpful.  There is a great need
 for teachers of
 meditation right now in many places.  The news is quite good
 TM and spiritual regeneration using meditation, modern
 science and
 vedic science together in the world.
 Yours in Revolution, 
 -U.S. Buck in the Dome
 One can conceive
 of gradients in spectrum of cults and sects.
 Paired data-points on Cartesian axis:  Like on one scale
 have it run
 from a low end of  immoral-sociopathic-NPDisordered then to
 transformative moral  and spiritual at the top of that
 scale.  That
 could work for sorting individuals or movement
 organizations.  On the
 other, 2nd axis have a scale of types of teachers or their
 organizations that run from just authors or lecturers, to
 swamis, gurus, sat gurus, jagad gurus, saints and avatars at
 the top
 end.  X-Y axis.  Draw it and then place your person
 organization cult
 or sect vs the type of teacher or saint.  .  as a dot placed
 on the
 graph.  Knapp for instance, being in the news again here on
 FFL may
 appear to be down at the low of each scale on the graph. 
 placement can change according to time and event horizon
 too.  Even
 can work to plot dynamic life-cycle of someone's
 spiritual teaching
 or organization through time.  Play with it.   
 DoctorDA writes: As far as the long time
 habit, and progression, of expanding
 one's awareness, through meditation, it has nothing to
 do with
 achieving signposts, or escaping this world, or acting like
 either an
 asshole or a saint. It is simply a means of discovering the
 range of human experience, and integrating it. No robes or
 exploitation, required.
 Graphing Data-pairs,  Charismatics and
 As Charisma:
  "Weber, in an oft quoted passage, defined charisma as a certain quality of an 
 personality, by virtue of which [s/]he is set apart from ordinary [people] and 
treated as
 endowed with supernatural, superhuman, or at least specifically exceptional 
powers or
 qualities. These are such as are not accessible to the ordinary person, but 
are regarded as
 of divine origin or as exemplary, and on the basis of them the individual 
concerned is
 treated as a leader." 1
 Okay, no
 charismatic leader no cult.  It is just an
 organization.  So by more
 scholarly definition evidently your feelings around the TM
 is that TM never quite rose up to be a cult, but was/is a
 sect.   No
 charismatic leader, no cult.  It evidently was a
 movement that you were part of,-Buck
 See FFL Post 370565 for a
 discussion of the context of charisma, cults and
 writes:As far as I'm concerned it
 never had a charismatic leader. Marshy's woolly,
 illogical and ignorant lecturing style always left me cold.
 Corporation is a good word for it though. As it sells both a
 product and a belief system that makes that product seem a
 lot more valuable than it actually is. Marshy's genius
 is the lectures he gave that conned everyone into thinking
 all the unified field, sci, land of the ved bollocks was an
 ultimate truth for all mankind and that he was its natural
 writes:I'd have to agree with you about
 MMY not being the most riveting of speakers. He was a snooze
 for me but he certainly, at least, seemed like a pleasant
 enough guy but hardly profound, hardly magnetic and
 definitely not charismatic.
 TM, more
 accurately now is a [religious spiritual] sect in its
 post-charismatic leader phase.  As an organizational
 structure it is
 a corporation.  Fairly, TM is no longer a cult with a
 leader.  -Buck
 No, most of what you are offering
 as definition technically is about sects.   Cults form
 around charismatic persons. Sects form out of specialness,
 exception or differentiation as in different denominations
 of protestantism or catholicism or denominations or types of
 meditation. Those are sects. Sects are around fragmentation
 and cults are around persons as charismatics.  For
 instance, If someone really 'charismatic', like
 earlier defined by Weber, like a Robin were to show up in
 Fairfield, Iowa and take off a bunch of meditators as his
 followers by force and power of personality then we're
 talking cult, as a sect. That is different than the
 different sects of people out teaching meditations and some
 others out there teaching other things they've
 learned.-Buck in the
 Salyavin808 writes: You don't need any leader to
 be a cult. All you need is a belief system that sets you
 apart from the norm.
 Om, policy and
 movement within TM now is based much
 more on science, merit and efficacy than old ways promoted
 around Totakacharya-like devotion, fealty and ideology. But
 that old movement way of fealty test and
 ideology test is fast dying away of a necessity and become
 cultural memory of a
 Heck TM does not
 even have a charismatic leader or
 leadership anymore.  WE got administrators.  It is kind of
 hard to
 have a cult without a charismatic leader that you could
 point to.
 That is defining of cults.  Please see FFL post# 370565 . 
 No, people
 become meditators and then freely participating in this
 because they like meditation and appreciate all the good
 that the
 transcendent meditative state provides everyone individually
 collectively.  Our meditating organization is here to
 facilitate that
 good.  That facilitating in our case now is the work of good
 progress by our new incorporation as meditators.  Our
 corporation as
 it always has been is certainly about affecting a positive
 revolutionary radical change in all of society for
 everybody.  Most
 of us in TM are pretty clear about that.  Are you with us or
 us in this?-U.S. Buck in
 the Dome
 MJ, See
 Weber's comments on 'cult' in Melton's Intro
 to The
 Postcharismatic Fate of New Religious
 MJ, Your thesis
 around TM being a 'cult' has a problem in
 that we in TM no longer have a charismatic leader of TM.  We
 either administrators or meditators in TM and anyone in TM
 enfranchised by a little of both under Maharishi's
 Absolute Theories
 of Management and Government.  You clearly are full of your
 personal BS and have your ax grinding about something.
  I feels a sorrow for thee in thy lack of peace around
 “Which would you
 experience: living the paradox or understanding it to your
 satisfaction?”  Not either position is mutually exclusive,
 or that
 there is a third possibility of
 MJ writes:You need
 to read up on what cults actually are before you make such
 Nope, not a
 cult.  TM now as a corporation obviously
 is not a cult any more than any modern productive working
 of employees is a 'cult'.  TM and meditators as a
 community now are
 just like airline corporation employee pilots of an airline
 And they might go fly for their work wearing funny looking
 hats and
 coats too where they would go to work and pilot an airliner.
 those lesser employees too as part of the corporate team who
 a flight as a gate agent or direct people as flight
 attendants or
 load luggage or maintain the corporation equipment.  TM is
 as very
 modern as is any corporation in 'cult' -ure, as
 Maharishi himself
 particularly set that in motion now.  TM now is not hardly
 as bad as you
 portray it.  It is rapidly becoming more modern and
 scientific as it is of vedic origin in corporation all the
 time.  And we don't hardly see the gold hats and
 robes around much outside of a small circle deep inside at
 the top.  If there is a cult it is possibly at that
 level to see but you can see a lot of them avoiding the caps
 and robes when they can.-Buck
 MJwrites:You are right Buck, the TMO IS different now
 - it is much more of a cult than it was when I started in
 1974. If you can look at these idiots wearing robes and gold
 crowns who practice and follow every Hindu religious
 observance and holiday and not see it as a cult, then you
 have been snorting too much sheep
 Shame on you
 MHJ.  Om, First-Class Bull-Manure you
 Spread Wide and Spread Thick here, MHJ.   This TM now is not
 a “cult”
 no more as much as you might like to declare that it is.  As
 we used
 to explain in the olde days, “Om no, TM is not a
 'cult' like
 christian cults or the people's-temple may be; TM is way
 dis-organized to be that. . It's about meditation and
 the evident
 scientific spiritual value of meditation”.    MJ, there is
 something malevolent in what you do to something that is so
 good in
 itself as what is simply transcending meditation.   In this
 corporate-post-charismantic-era, Transcendental Meditation
 is plainly
 now different.  Your commentary is clearly out of date.  I
 that it takes a long time for the current news to travel to
 hollers and plantations of South Carolina but clearly you
 are out of
 it.-Buck in the
 mjackson74 writes: I
 shall begin an immediate campaign to have it removed from
 Whole Goods (sic) so they don't support cults.
 The Transcendental Meditative
 State ofConsciousness is Found Within
 Restful ALERTNESS.Drink: Vedic Coffee to
 Support Restful ALERTNESS!
 writes:I shall begin an immediate
 campaign to have it removed from Whole Goods so they
 don't support cults.
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Drink Vedic Coffee and Support
 Date: Friday, February 14, 2014, 11:52
 The Transcendental Meditative State of
 Consciousness is Found Within Restful ALERTNESS.
 Drink: Vedic Coffee to Support Restful ALERTNESS!

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