> > > > Neither the word nor the definition implied > > > > insincerity to me. Toady is as toady *does*. > > > > It's about behavior, not the sincerity of > > > > the behavior. > > > > > > Nice try, no cigar. The definition itself > > > characterizes the behavior in terms of motivations. > > > "In the hope of gaining" and "Self-seeking" are both > > > phrases describing motivations, not behavior. > > > > > > And in both cases those motivations are contrary > > > to what the *behavior* suggests--i.e., admiration > > > of the person being flattered. > > > > > > > Your mileage may (and probably > > > > will) vary. Such is life. > > > > > > You can define "toady" however you like. I'm > > > pointing out that the definition you supplied implies > > > (in the sense of "necessary consequence") that the > > > behavior is insincere. > > > > It implies it TO YOU. > > No, no. Read what I wrote again, please: "implies > (in the sense of 'necessary consequence')." That's > quite different from the "Gee, it sounds to me kinda > like they mean..." sense of "imply." > > > And as usual, in your mind > > that means that there is only one possible way of > > interpreting the word or concept -- it's the Judy > > Way or no way at all. :-) > > You desperately need a course in semantics. Really > essential for someone who wants to be a writer. > > If you read that definition and don't think it > implies insincerity as a necessary consequence, > that's a *mistake* on your part, not just a > different take on it. > > And of course you don't even attempt to deal with > what I pointed out about the definition being > based on motivation rather than just behavior. > You used a dictionary definition to explain what > you meant by "toady," but now you're saying you > meant something quite different. That's fine, > but don't try to pretend it *isn't* different. > > > One last try. Think of the Vatican. The place is > > just *full* of toadies, sucking up to the current > > Pope. Does this mean that they're insincere in > > their faith? Of course not. They're just being > > toadies. > > But again, Barry, we weren't talking about faith, > we were talking about devotion to Maharishi, > remember? The toadies in the Vatican are those who > are insincere in their professed devotion to the pope. > They may well be perfectly sincere in their faith. > > The ones who are toadies are those who flatter the > pope in the hope of personal gain rather than because > they think he's wonderful.
Believe whatever you want, Judy. This exchange really illustrates the difference between you and me. You seem to believe that to perform questionable actions (toadying up to some- one to gain some benefit from that) one *has* to be insincere. That's a point of view based on an idealized and non-real-world view of life. Me, I've actually spent a lot of time *in* spiritual communities, not on the periphery of them project- ing what you'd like to believe about them onto the community, like you. It's an *everyday occurrence* to find people who feel real bhakti for a teacher -- to the depth of their hearts, without an ounce of insincerity -- and *at the same time* are complete and utter toadies with regard to that teacher *for their own benefit*. IMO, you are (as usual) trying to make a shades- of-gray situation into black and white, and IMO for your usual reason -- you want to feel superior to someone. If you convince yourself that a person *has* to be insincere to be a toady, you can look down on them. Me, I just recognize that the toadies are human and the students who aren't toadies are human and they're all just doing the best they can with what they've got. But you continue to project nefarious motivations onto people if you'd like. It seems to be a trend, so much of one that somewhere along the line you seem to have decided that it makes you *happy* to think of people as nefarious and yourself as not. Personally, I don't think such a belief system really does make one happy, but I could be wrong. IMO, Bevan is completely devoted to Maharishi. *At the same time*, he is one of the biggest toadies I have ever encountered in my entire life, milking his situation for all the attention and "benefits" he can get. To you, such a situation seems incomprehensible; to me, it is common. Go figure. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
