you don't have an answer for it because it just doesn't exist. It is a matter of plain common sense. If the Marshy Effect exists it is logical to expect the effect would be strongest at its epicenter. Doesn't exist, period. -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 4/9/14, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons? To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2014, 12:22 PM ---In [email protected], <turquoiseb@...> wrote : For the record, Steve, I have no interest in "bringing down" the TM organization, for the simple reason that it doesn't need my help. It seems intent on bringing itself down. I need only watch, and comment from the sidelines from time to time in a fashion that brings out the long-established cult tendencies of those who are watching their world -- and their belief system -- crumble about them. yes, that is my understanding. it appears to me you have a pretty active life apart from anything going on here or with the TMO. For example, as I pointed out yesterday, in all of this kerfuffle about Shuvender Sem's book, did *anyone* who still seems to feel an allegiance to the TMO deal with the *real* question raised by his actions in murdering someone right at "Ground Zero" of the supposed "Maharishi Effect?" Did *anyone* try to explain that, and make a case for the ME anyway? They did not. Instead they badrapped the people bringing the subject up again. I would suggest that the *intent* of this tactic is to try to *silence* those bringing up subjects that to *them* are uncomfortable, because they challenge the very things they believe in. I honestly don't think that some of these people are even consciously aware that that's what they're doing -- they just do it out of rote habit, because that's how they've seen everyone else in the TMO deal with criticism for so long and because they themselves have been doing it for so long. At the same time, and something you might want to look out for, too, another common tactic when dealing with a critic who has a history of bringing up these "uncomfortable" topics is to "challenge their motivations" for doing so, implying that there is something WRONG with them for doing it. This is Ann's primary tactic, and seemingly one of yours as well. I'm not trying to convince you to stop doing it, because on one level I think you (not Ann) are actually concerned that Michael is overfocusing on this pissant meditation organization that's going to fold in a few years anyway, and are trying to steer him towards more balance. But I am trying to clue you in to the fact that this is another well-known and well-studied cult tactic as well, and a hidden attempt to "silence the critic" or "shoot the messenger." After all, if you can convince people that this person is "unbalanced," then people are going to stop listening to the things they say, and treat them as less credibile. And, of course, you don't have to deal with the criticisms themselves. It's a copout...a form of taking the "low road." I understand what you are saying here. I think Michael has been a pretty on target critic of the organization in many ways. But there are also times when I think his portrayals are so one sided and skewed that I feel motivated to challenge them. I also think he plays that same card frequently of "labeling" and "shooting the messenger" when the facts go against the case he may be making on any given issue. Wouldn't it be a little more impressive if all these people who still feel strongly about the TMO and still seem to believe that the ME is -- or even may be -- a real phenomenon spent a little time making a case for either, rather than trying to either demonize the critics or portray them as crazy? Wouldn't that display a little more...dare I say it?...creative intelligence? Just sayin'... That seems to be the strongest point that you, and Michael focus on, i.e. the ME and why it doesn't it seem to have an impact in the immediate area of FF. I don't have an answer for it. I think Ann made a good point, that there seems to be a misconception of the part of Michael, at least, that the ME is capable of having such a transforming effect on the environment that conflicts will become non existent. It is in areas like this where I think he sometimes has a problem separating fantasy from reality, hence my comment along those lines. But as to why it hasn't lowered crime or other problems in FF, no idea. From: "steve.sundur@..." <steve.sundur@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 3:54 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons? Well, let's look at it this way. Barry is on record that part of his interest here is to examine the mindset of true believers, or those he believes to be such. I can understand that. But it also works both ways. I find it interesting to examine what drives some of the detractors. And it helps me understand myself better. I try to figure out what would make a person invest so much time and attention in trying to bring down an organization. I mean there are many places to invest one's attention. Why so much in this endeavor? What makes a person not move on? There are things I would have done differently in life, but I've always understood, that I need to keep going forward. As trite as it sounds, it is spiritual understanding that motivates me. You get a little, and then you want more. So, it just strikes me as odd to see someone so preoccupied with past events. ---In [email protected], <mjackson74@...> wrote : Ah, thanks for clarifying. Thanks also for reaching out with your TM enhanced awareness and assessing my state of emotional development. It is true that I was emotionally arrested at age 10, but just 2 weeks of TM allowed me to catch up and I actually got enlightened after 6 months of TM. I am here on FFL because Cosmic Intelligence wants me to challenge you and Buck and a few others to test your enlightenment and hep you along the path. As to MUM, here is a grand assessment from a student from a school review web site: The school is particularly scared of being sued, which is due in large part to a murder that occured in the cafeteria in 2004/5. This is why they changed the name from Maharishi International University to MUM... This has alot to do with why they are so scared of students who seem externally dissatisfied or angry about things. There are other problems, the roads are not well maintained (my car hit a pothole that popped the tire), the dorms have serious black mold issues (that no one talks about, for risk of legal action), safety in fire exits is compromised for the sake of "sthapatya ved" style of building which dictates that the only practical entrances to a building are east and north. This place is great if you want to be a lazy, loathsome, 20-something-year old kindergartner for the rest of your life. If you are there to get real and get an education, get the fuck out. That's all I got to say. And another that I love: I attended this university for three years. The campus is home to students and followers of Maharishi. In fact all of the faculty are also devoted followers of him and one finds themselves in a "cult of personality". In all classes many hours are spent watching old tapes of Maharishi answering questions from audience members at conventions. The main goal of the school is to keep people calm. Work assignments are easy and wasteful of time. In my classes no one fails because the teachers often go over the questions and answers for upcoming exams. Life here is easy and soft, one learns laziness and passivity. Many people stay because life in the outside world is soon seen as hard and scary. Most teachers get paid around one thousand dollars a month before taxes and are given no retirement plan or other benefits except a meal pass at the cafeteria and an option to stay in a dorm room. Students are required to meditate during class time and have to go to class six days out of the week. Since all of the students get passed due to huge grade inflation, the 200 and 300 level classes are filled with students who still don't understand the concepts on a 100 level. This is why answers are handed out. So this school is wonderful if you want to vege out and get a diploma with a high GPA. But if you want to become prepared for a career in the real world stay far away from this place. My experience seems different from what I see in the computer science program; although this program is mainly filled with English as a second language students from Africa and Asia. My main advice for success at M.U.M. is too talk about how wonderful Maharishi and your meditation is. This advice will surely get you straight A's and many accolades regardless of what your term paper or presentation was supposed to be about. 3rd Year Male -- Class 2013 -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 4/9/14, steve.sundur@... <steve.sundur@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons? To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2014, 12:09 AM what I mean is, that I don't recall many outlandish connections between the discipline being studied and the Science of Creative Intelligence. Some of the disciplines lent themselves to a better comparison, such as physics and mathematics, and maybe chemistry, and some did not. But during the time I was there in the late 70's the campus was brimming with students, and maybe the rigidity was less. On the other hand, as I understand it, the university has had to become more attractive to those without any TM background, which was not the case when I attended. ---In [email protected], <mjackson74@...> wrote : That is a wonderfully creative idea Driving home the truth about TM all across America! I like it! And what does that mean, circumspect, exactly? -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 4/8/14, steve.sundur@... <steve.sundur@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons? To: [email protected] Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2014, 7:57 PM Michael, I'd say you've got your work cut out for you. Tackle them one at a time. I can't think of a better use of your time. Maybe you can get a specially outfitted van. "Michael's Traveling antiTM Van. Driving Home the Truth about TM Across America", or something along these lines. What do you think? Oh, and by the way, the professors I encountered during my days at MIU seemed a little more circumspect with the discipline/SCI connections. ---In [email protected], <mjackson74@...> wrote : Oh I know it happens but and I admit my experience doesn't cover ALL people in the world, but when I was at MIU the faculty members I encountered seemed to be a bit more of the True Believers than most of the staff and students, of course that could be because they were required as part of their jobs to really put forth the TM party line on any question or situation that arose. I just hope that one day some enterprising individual will hire a group to analyze the entire "scientific" body of research on TM and TMSP, prove scientifically and statistically that it is NOT scientifically valid, that the appropriate authorities will look into the pundit program, see that MUM/GCWP is in violation of federal statues, shut down the pundit cash cow program, heavily fine the Movement, find the accreditation of MUM is undeserved and revoke it, Girish will then sell the place and all this after Hagelin and Moriss have had to own up to their womanizing in court, MUM will fire both of them, they will then turn on the Movement and tell all the dirty secrets to save their necks which will be the testimony that leads to the revoking of the accreditation. Also, a serious study will be undertaken to see how many TM'ers develop mental problems after long use of TM, the number of suicides and attempted suicides will be studied, and after all this is published, the TMO will be unable to claim any scientific validity to anything it does and is reduced to saying "We think you should do it cause we need your money and we think its a good thing to do." Happy Tuesday! -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 4/8/14, steve.sundur@... <steve.sundur@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Unstressing or Demons? To: [email protected] Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2014, 12:50 PM Well, I would say you may still be a little wet behind the ears. I think many have taken this route. A friend of mine who was an active teacher back in the day, and lived in FF for a spell, is now priest in an archdiocese in Iowa somewhere, IIRC, and he tells a similar store as Kai Druhl, and his objections run along the same lines. I think you have a tendency to take at face value every claim MMY or the TMO has made, and then when they don't pan out you start pounding. I think others were able to figure in a discount for the "vision of possibilities" and go from there. Yes, some of things that have come to light in the intervening years have caused me some cognitive dissonance, and forced me to look at things differently, but I know what I have taken away from the experience overall, and that has allowed me to overcome some of the dysfunctional parts of it all.
