I always regretted I didn't get the invisibility sutra nor the understanding the language of animals - they weren't handing those out to us plebeian meditators otherwise known as Rising Sidhas, dunno why - I guess they thought the more highly evolved governors had unstressed their asses off too much when trying to turn invisible and maybe a few of 'em got carted off to mental institutions when their families found them talking to squirrels and such and believing they answered back after the new gov's got back home from the much vaunted 6 month courses. -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 4/10/14, salyavin808 <[email protected]> wrote:
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect? To: [email protected] Date: Thursday, April 10, 2014, 12:10 PM It's a good theory because that's how it was on my "sidhi" course. We'd get the sutra and try it for a bit and get endless encouragement to "feel the different flavours". We were all disappointed when we found out it was in English, I was hoping for some super-mantra things. The general opinion was that if any "flavours" were felt at all it was mostly the power of suggestion that was doing it. Until we got to the "flying" sutra, the reaction of most people's minds to that was "Wow!" when they got it to work for the first time. Mine was of complete astonishment. The rest of the sutras did become more pronounced after extended practise but obviously no supernormal powers, the "flying" sutra was never that good again. Go figure. Apart from a secret wish to be able to levitate, I learned the "sidhis" because I wanted the extra depth to the standard TM and believed the hype that it was the quickest possible way to enlightenment. I did it for ten years including a great many courses. I can honestly say that I don't know what it was supposed to do, but it definitely increased the problems I had originally learned TM for. Unstressing? Not suitable? I don't care, they assessed me for the course, took my money and that was that. I realised when I quit and went back to TM 20X20 that the "sidhis" weren't making me happy at all, in fact I was pleased to be rid of it, both for the time it takes and all the worsening of the stressed out/spaced out feelings I got. No enlightenment there. Not for me anyway, other people may react differently to it. But there's a disturbing habit in the TMO of making light of the bad bits of the practise, so most people will tell you they are having a great time even if they aren't. I got interviewed for the brochures when on courses and told them what they wanted to hear even if the opposite was true. Rather I cherry picked from among the bad for the nice bits we'd all get from time to time. But the good bits of doing TM and the "sidhis" are in my top-ten best experiences in life, so it wasn't a complete waste of time. Rough with the smooth and all that. Trouble is, I wasn't after up and down, I remember reading somewhere that enlightenment is beyond all that. How can you get there by going the wrong way? ---In [email protected], <turquoiseb@...> wrote : From: Michael Jackson <mjackson74@...> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2014 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect? Spot on Barry. It's just a theory, but I think one can make a stronger case for it than TM True Believers can make for how they believe the TM-Sidhis "work." I guess we'll see... -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 4/10/14, TurquoiseBee <turquoiseb@...> wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect? To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Date: Thursday, April 10, 2014, 8:14 AM I think one can make a case that they are. Here, I'll start... First, let's look at the basic TM technique, which uses Sanskrit mantras described by the TMO as "meaningless sounds" (which are really the names or "calling cards" of Hindu gods and goddesses, as anyone who can read books from India would know) as a mechanism for meditation. You *could* make a case that there is something "special" about these mantras, some sonic quality that actually facilitates meditation, because of course they have no meaning to most of the people who think them. But that's not true for the TM-Sidhis. As anyone who has ever learned them knows (but gets really, really uptight when someone like myself points out), what you paid thousands of dollars for (a good argument for the Placebo Effect in itself) were a number of *English language phrases* straight from a translation of the Yoga Sutras, all of which very *definitely* have meaning. After a period of TM meditation, the "TM Sidha" is instructed to think them -- *in English* (or whatever modern language they were taught the TM-Sidhis in) in a particular way, and then wait for the effects. I believe that a strong case can be made for Placebo Effect-like *expectation* in all of this, for three reasons. First, the TM-Sidhis were initially marketed *as a way of achieving and mastering all of the "siddhis" these phrases describe*. The original (first few years) "intro lectures" about the TM-Sidhi program were full of promises that you would learn to levitate and be able to perform other siddhis. Tales were told by people marketing and selling the new (and rather expensive) courses of people having been seen levitating, or walking through walls, or demonstrating invisibility. All of these tales were nothing more than urban legends, of course, because none of this had ever happened. But still, an *expectation* WAS formed among the people paying their money for the TM-Sidhi course that they'd have experiences like this themselves. Second are the nature of the phrases they're thinking themselves. They *very much* have meaning, and you'd have to be a complete idiot not to realize that when you're sitting there thinking them that you're "supposed" to experience what they describe. For example, is there any question that when you're sitting there thinking "Friendliness" that you're supposed to feel more friendly? Or that when you're sitting there thinking "Strength of an elephant" you're supposed to feel stronger? Or that when you're thinking "Relationship of body and akasha - lightness of cotton fiber" you're supposed to lift up into the air as if you were actually lighter yourself? OF COURSE this is a form of suggestion, and I think that combined with the fact that the people thinking this last "sutra" had paid thousands of dollars for the privilege, one can make a strong case that any "bouncing" that follows (caused by unconscious or only partly conscious physical effort) can be attributed to nothing but the Placebo Effect. Third is the aspect of "reinforcement" that one receives in the form of praise for claiming to have *had* the experience of these phrases you're thinking. As reported here on FFL, in recent courses at MUM the participants are actually questioned after each session as to the "depth" or "profundity" of their "experiences." For each of the sutras (meaningful phrases), they are expected to raise their hands if they had a "Number 1" experience of them, a "Number 2" experience of them, or a "Number 3" experience of them. Naturally, those who claim to have had Number 1 experiences are perceived as "better," and praised, further reinforcing the Placebo Effect. So I think it's *very* possible to describe the reported effects of the TM-Sidhis as "nothing but Placebo Effect." The onus to prove or suggest otherwise falls on those who claim otherwise, and we'll wait patiently for you to do so. Please explain to us the "magic" or "Woo Woo" that enables thinking *English language phrases* to create the claimed effects of the TM-Sidhis. Please explain to us how you somehow divorce yourself from *expectation* when thinking these very meaningful phrases, and thus are not deceiving yourself into believing that they are producing an actual effect. Please explain how you are *not* affected by being regarded as somehow "special" merely for claiming that you've had "profound experiences" THAT YOU WERE TOLD TO EXPECT, and how that cannot be attributed to the Placebo Effect. We'll wait...
