Just to follow up, Salyavin, what would you feel constituted "sure-fire proof" of something like reincarnation, or siddhis being performed?
I can speak to the latter somewhat, taking for example the siddhi of levitation. Video wouldn't do it, because 14-year-olds can hack video these days to make it look like whatever they want it to look like. "Demos" in front of large groups of people wouldn't cut it, because then the "it must have been mass hallucination" folks would come out with that doubt-dick swinging. One of the things I learned first from spending time with the Rama guy was that "proof" is overrated, as is the belief that it would mean anything to most people. I've sat in lecture halls with a guest who jumped in her seat and exclaimed loudly, "Oh my God, he's floating!" when Rama did his thing, but who the next day claimed she'd seen nothing. In her case, it was because she was a TB TMer, and it so severely challenged her world view to have seen something that supposedly isn't possible outside the TM movement in a room in the L.A. Convention Center. So she just chose to forget ever having seen it. I've seen other people do the same thing without the TM indoctrination; they just couldn't get past having seen what they considered to be the laws of nature being violated in front of their eyes, so they just metaphorically closed their eyes and pretended later not to have seen it. After having admitted at the time that they *had* seen it, that is...given a night or two to think about what "having seen it" would do to their world, they chose "not to have seen it." I think this would happen with pretty much any "sure-fire proof" you could think up. Those who wish to believe would believe, and those who wish not to believe would not. I mean, there are people on this planet who still believe firmly that humans have never set foot on the moon, and what could have *been* more "real-time documented" than that event? The funny thing from my point of view is that I suspect that viewing video of siddhis being performed wouldn't do diddleysquat for the people viewing it, *even if they believed it to be true*. The reason I feel this way is that there is an *energy* that accompanies the performance of siddhis, and I seriously doubt that this energy could be captured on video. The siddhi itself -- Big Whoop. Seen one, you've seen 'em all. But the *energy*?! THAT was transformative. Below I mentioned being "blown out of the water" in terms of having your current beliefs so challenged as to evaporate and go poof! Watching someone violate the supposed laws of gravity -- *in conjunction with that energy*, whatever it was -- was that kinda belief-challenging "new start" stuff, in spades. Unless you blot it out of your mind and pretend that you didn't see it (like the people I mentioned above), you're pretty much stuck with some serious Cognitive Dissonance for the rest of your life. The *easy path* is to pretend you didn't see it. The hard path is to accept that you really DID see it, even if you have no idea what "it" was. I saw what I saw, and experienced what I felt. I can't "go back" from that, and pretend that I didn't. I don't claim to "know" what those experiences were, but they were mine, and I own them. I don't try to sell them to others, but I own them. I'll spend the rest of my life trying to figure out what some of them were. But I can't feel badly about *any* of them, because they were a real E-ticket ride and they were transformative, and they gave me more "new starts" than I can count. ________________________________ From: TurquoiseBee <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2014 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What are the *benefits* of believing in God? From: salyavin808 <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2014 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What are the *benefits* of believing in God? ---In [email protected], <turquoiseb@...> wrote : Even though I happen to suspect that there may be something to the reincarnation thang, I see no need to provide "proof" of it because it's just a belief, and I don't much give a shit what others believe about my beliefs. As I've stated here several times, I won't know whether it's an accurate belief until I kick the bucket, and if the folks who believe that we just wink out like a light bulb turned off are right, I won't even be around to be disappointed. So I figure mine is a "no down sides" belief. That said, I would never presume to try to sell it to anyone else or feel the need to "defend" it. IT'S JUST A BELIEF. I think the world would be a better place if more people felt similarly about their beliefs. :-) I have no real sympathy for it but the stories of the children that do remember things are fascinating. The Scottish boy who thought he lived on an island was taken there and behaved very oddly when they took him into what he thought was his house. It was quite upsetting to watch. I can see why anyone would have a job doubting his story. Lots of people wanted to get all James Randi on it and that would probably be impossible given the unpredictability and rarity of the phenomenon, not to mention it being potentially unfair on a three year old. I always look for the ways in which things can't work but remain curious as it's one of those things that I'd take to be sure-fire proof that we don't know anything about what's going on here at all. And that would be cool indeed. Indeed. I simply cannot comprehend those who feel threatened when something challenges their beliefs. I've had things I had believed in blown out of the water so many times that I've actually come to enjoy it. Forget being reborn -- having to drop whatever you believed in before and start all over again is the real "new start."
