Nor would I expect you too, if it supports something you wish to believe. What does it say on the home page here, "What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the wish to find out, which is the exact opposite." ~ Bertrand Russell
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mjackson74@...> wrote : well, obviously if you believe in what M taught then you believe it whole cloth (at least some people do) those who study such things, psychologist and head shrinkers and the like have said the state of witnessing and transcending that meditators (including TM'ers) have described is a state of disassociation. I shan't argue with them. From: "steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others okay, I guess that is your opinion. I am not sure if that theory is borne out by the actual experience of long term mediators, or those who have this experience. I am no expert on Eastern or Vedic literature, but I believe you can pretty much throw out the whole tenant of the various stages of spiritual growth with this assertion, as it is outlined in these texts. It would also be interesting to see what is the trajectory of experience in the forms of meditation that you practice, or find of value, if there are such. Or maybe you consign the whole bunch to the trash heap. I don't know. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mjackson74@...> wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. From: "steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that transcending offers a respite. That has been my experience. I can't say that the dissociative state is something that makes much sense to me. I can see where there might be some objection to the mantra being associated with a Hindu Deity. I can see where someone might be put off by the ceremony, but quieting of the mind, with the resulting lowering of metabolic activity seem to be positive things in my opinion. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mjackson74@...> wrote : I personally feel that Marshy made up a lot of his teaching to suit himself and his personal agenda, rather than it being something he learned at Swami Bramananda's feet. I think the kind of "transcending" TM leads to is that unhealthy dissociative state. It would be interesting perhaps for you to try another kind of meditation. Chopra's Primordial Sound might be a good one, the kind sounds of silence was talking about today. I did it for a number of years. From: "steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others as a matter of fact, and it's funny you should bring that up, but I was thinking tonight that I am bending back towards the eastern/Hindu way of thinking actually. That could be for two reasons. 1) I've been having a chance to meditate after work lately. Just the TM part for about 20 minutes, and it has been nice. 2) I think that meditation in general is good. I admit, I am not familiar with any other type of meditation other than TM, but I think for meditation to be effective, there must be some transcending. Are you in agreement with that, Michael? Not being facetious here, really just wondering. And so, is transcending a part of typical meditation techniques? Really, not trying to sound like a doofus, I don't know. But, I've been thinking that TM does offer a means to transcend. That has been my direct experience. Back in the day, I used to transcend deeply. Now, I think I am just too fatigue laden for that to happen. But the technique and the seven steps are pretty nifty in teaching a person how to do it. Yes, I know, not many stay regular with the practice, for whatever reason, but if you feel transcending thought is something valuable, then TM has something to offer, I think. Any thoughts? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mjackson74@...> wrote : Like you ever change your opinions? From: "steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others doesn't matter what the "whereas" is, the "resolved that" is always the same for MJ. Yes, Michael, blah, blah, blah, Willy Tex. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote : It was a good post, but I reached an entirely different conclusion, from yours, as I read *all* of what Maharishi had to say - excellent reminder, all of it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mjackson74@...> wrote : Excellent post Dick! it points up very clearly what a liar and huckster Marshy was. To wit: "If some friend of yours brings pleasure to you, it's not that he is the cause of pleasure, but some of our good karma is coming through him." Marshy must have felt quite self satisfied over his good karma that allowed him to have such pleasure with all the good lookin' gals he had sex with. "If I do some sin in this room and no one is here, I think no one has seen it." This was certainly Marshy's mantra - the way he lied, committed fraud and screwed people over, it had to be his mantra, either that or he was just a bold self indulgent son of a bitch to teach this crap and not behave as if he believed it applied to himself. There are plenty of people who can attest to Marshy's habit of badmouthing in private people who had displeased him, and as Barry has already pointed out, as the Old Fraud aged, he reviled and disparaged people in public, in direct contravention of his own teaching. I am sure however that this part of his little speech: "Don't bring bad things, sinful things, wrong things done by others to your mind, and don't let that mind be spoiled which is being infused with God Consciousness through Transcendental Meditation." was intended to get his followers to ignore his own blatant sins and moral transgressions. What a forward thinking fellow he was! From: "Dick Mays dickmays@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:44 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others 7/21-23/14 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others MAHARISHI: "Everyone enjoys or suffers in life due to his own karma [action]. Nobody else brings suffering to a man. His own karma brings it. If some friend of yours brings pleasure to you, it's not that he is the cause of pleasure, but some of our good karma is coming through him. The same friend tomorrow becomes a bad friend, begins to bring pain. He's not responsible for bringing the pain. Our bad karma comes through him and we suffer. He is only the donkey of our action; he's only the carrier, he carries it for us. Whatever belongs to us he brings to us, he delivers; he is just a postman bringing our letter. QUESTION: "But for the friend, when he brings harm to us it will be a bad karma for him then?" MAHARISHI: "He has not become the carrier of our good deeds. Unfortunately, he has become the carrier of our bad deeds." QUESTION: "But he will suffer for this doing by him?" MAHARISHI: "He will suffer for his doing, but I will suffer for my doing. I can't put my suffering onto someone else. If I do some sin in this room and no one is here, I think no one has seen it. But it has been exposed to the whole universe. Everyone in the universe knows it, and somehow that will be delivered back to us by all the agencies in the universe knowing or unknowing. If you are committing sin in the room, then you are creating sinful vibrations. And 'sinful vibrations' means wherever they go, they will damage the evolution of that thing. Someone speaks ill of the other and plans to damage him -- a very underneath [sneaky] plan, nothing on the surface. He's damaging the entire creation by his mischief because the agency of thought is just vibration. That is why scriptures forbid us from speaking ill of someone, or damaging someone, doing harm to someone because [even though] apparently we seem to be harming him, eventually we have to be harmed by our own doing of the harm to someone else. To save the doer, the teaching is: Don't do any bad thing to anyone, don't commit sin, go for virtue, help thy neighbor, so that thy[self] may be helped In India there is a proverb: if someone speaks ill of the other, he partakes of his sin. Do we have any such proverb here in the West?" (Message over 64 KB, truncated)
