--- In [email protected], "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], Rick Archer > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > on 11/3/05 12:38 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > --- In [email protected], "feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > >> > > >> I wonder about this "meaningless sounds" business. At the > > >> preparatory lecture, I always used to say the mantras > were "sounds > > >> the effects of which are known," or "words selected for their > sound > > >> quality," or something like that. I never said, "meaningless > > >> sounds" and I wonder whether using that phrase was ever an > official > > >> instruction. It's a very unfortunate phrase, in my opinion. > > > > > > Whatever associations they may have in Hinduism, > > > as they're used in TM they're semantically > > > meaningless sounds. > > > > Meaningless, but the bija mantras are fundamentally connected with > > Devatas, > > They *are* devatas. > > and these Devatas are instrumental in producing the > > effects that result from meditating with their mantras. > > > > > I know all the "names of gods" stuff from Trancenet, > > > but that's just inaccurate. At most, they're sounds > > > that are associated with gods in Hinduism. > > > > But if you regard Hinduism as anything more than a mythological > > tradition, then you might acknowledge that it's colorful depictions > > of gods and goddesses might represent actual celestial entities who > > are powerful governors of nature's mechanics. > > Well, I have my own ideas of what they represent. > > > >But even > > > Hindus who are taught TM are told to treat the mantra > > > as pure sound during meditation (at least that's what > > > I was told by a long-time TM teacher who did a lot of > > > initiations in India way back when). > > > > Hindus who are taught TM in India are asked who their cherished > > deity is, and on that basis their mantra is chosen. > > And that contradicts what I said how? > > > > If you want to get all esoteric about it, the mantras > > > are in some sense devas, but then you have to get into > > > the whole Nama-rupa thing and how Sanskrit syllables > > > aren't symbolic, like regular language; they don't > > > *stand for* things, they *are* things. And if you're > > > going to say mantras are gods, well, you gotta first > > > believe in gods. I'm a lot happier with "impulses of > > > creative intelligence," myself. > > > > Just a Western phrase Maharishi chose to make a Hindu concept seem > > more scientific. > > Or perhaps not. Perhaps "impulses of creative > intelligence" is the more accurate description > for the abstract celestial entities or forces > which in Hinduism are metaphorically represented > by colorful gods and goddesses, and which are > actually aspects of our own consciousness. > > Remember that MMY also refers to "devata" as > "process of knowing," that which connects Knower > and known, or rather which *creates* what is > known. The Knower "knows" the known into being, > devata being the creative agency. > > I believe the mythological aspects of religions > generally are metaphors for highly abstract > components of reality--of the mechanics of > consciousness--rather than personal beings. Not > that they can't take the form of personal beings, > of course. But their essence is vastly more > abstract, I think. >
************* MMY: "All these Devatas are there present in the structure of the physiology. So it's not an imagination. It's a reality. Physiology, physiology of man, physiology of Devata, physiology of the embodiment of silence - Shiva, physiology of the embodiment of dynamism - Vishnu. They are the physical expressions. And these physical expressions have a form. They have a form. They have all that is described in the Vedic Literature as the Devatas. Shiva, Vishnu, Ganapati. These are all the realities of life. They have a form. They have a form. And one secret about this form is, that the Devata will appear to the worshipper or to the devotee or to whosoever prays in the form he wants Him to appear. Fulfillment of the thought." from: > >> GLOBAL PRESS CONFERENCE------May 7, 2003 > >> > >> QUESTION----------Maharishi, you speak often of God > >> as > >> the unified field or as a universal abstract field > >> of > >> life. As humans though we tend to see God not as > >> pure > >> abstraction or a vacuum but as a personal presence, > >> a > >> He or a She, or at least a force. Does that > >> universal, abstract level of God in fact manifest to > >> some degree as a palpable presence, so that humans > >> can > >> perceive Him or Her? > >> > >> MAHARISHI---------Not to some extent but to all > >> extent. All extent. This quotation takes me to > >> discovery of Raja Raam, His Majesty, the first ruler > >> of the Age of Enlightenment of this Global Country > >> of > >> World Peace who has shown consciousness is that > >> which > >> has precipitated into fabrics of physiology. > >> Consciousness, Vedic Literature, vedic words, they > >> are > >> fluent, they have precipitated as the fibers of > >> physiology. And the finest fiber of physiology is > >> expressed in the Vedic Literature as Devata. > >> Devata, > >> silence embodiment. Embodiment of silence, Shiva. > >> Embodiment of dynamism, Vishnu. All these Devatas > >> are > >> there present in the structure of the physiology. > >> So > >> it's not an imagination. It's a reality. > >> Physiology, > >> physiology of man, physiology of Devata, physiology > >> of > >> the embodiment of silence - Shiva, physiology of the > >> embodiment of dynamism - Vishnu. They are the > >> physical expressions. And these phy! sical > >> expressions have a form. They have a form. They > >> have > >> all that is described in the Vedic Literature as the > >> Devatas. Shiva, Vishnu, Ganapati. These are all > >> the > >> realities of life. They have a form. They have a > >> form. And one secret about this form is, that the > >> Devata will appear to the worshipper or to the > >> devotee or to whosoever prays in the form he wants > >> Him > >> to appear. Fulfillment of the thought. > >> > >> One raised in the religious literature - God, this > >> God, this God, this God, this God. And it's human > >> nature. Whomsoever they like most, they revere Him. > >> > >> And great reverence is called devotion. And the > >> point > >> of devotion is called God. And so all these is in > >> the > >> feeling. And the feeling materializes. Feeling > >> materializes. Feeling materializes. Vedic > >> Literature > >> is full of instances that the devotee sees the point > >> of his devotion, sees his God as he wants to see > >> Him. > >> It's a great depth of reality because one's own Self > >> is that omnipresent, infinite value of totality. > >> You > >> can derive anything from within your Self. Anything > >> from within your Self. That's why transcendental > >> meditation and that's why the source of thought. > >> And > >> in Yogic Flying the proof comes, that you can have > >> Yogic Flying. You can have Yogic Flying. > >> > >> Apart from Yogic Flying, there are sutras, there are > >> programs. You achieve anything and anything means > >> anything. Because your own Self, your own Atma, > >> your > >> own Being is a field of all possibilities. > >> Omnipresent, unbounded, infinite. Omnipresent, > >> unbounded, infinite field of intelligence. Once > >> your > >> awareness is communicating with it, anything you > >> want > >> will be there. Rik Ved exhorts, Rik Ved > >> proclaims, > >> that once the mind is in tune with the > >> transcendental > >> reality, the whole nature, the whole infinite > >> creativity of natural law, the whole Will of God is > >> there to bring fulfillment to any desire. It's a > >> reality. It's not a gossip. It's a reality. It's > >> not a matter of faith. It's the reality. It is so. > >> > >> It is so. It is so. > >> > >> And it is on that basis that we are building the > >> great > >> fortune of mankind. On that reality. Because it is > >> so. We think it should be so. It should be > >> possible > >> to be so. And so when we are rising to proclaim a > >> better world, a peaceful world, a happy world, a > >> fulfilled world, a blissful world, we are not > >> dreaming, we are not dreaming. We are actualizing > >> what has always been there, what will always be > >> there. > >> > >> In our life-time we are realizing. We are fortunate > >> to have come to this level of awareness that > >> something > >> that is there, we can have in its full value. This > >> is > >> education. Vedic education. This is Vedic health. > >> It's a great opportunity for everyone. It's a very > >> great opportunity for everyone. Because everyone is > >> like that. That's all. That's all. Everyone is > >> potentially that. Only one has to take one's > >> attention to that level. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
