---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <LEnglish5@...> wrote : A couple of things that Raja Luis recently said that are relevant: 1) The government of Peru is apparently seriously looking at having 250,000 students learn TM. An important innovation of what they apparently will be doing is that existing school teachers will be sent to TM teacher training in order to implement the Quiet Time Program in many schools in Peru.
You read that correctly: regular old school teachers will be trained as TM teachers. 2) This is apparently to be part of a very large scale test of the Maharishi Effect, and many/most of the kids will eventually be taught the TM-SIdhis, if I understood what Raja Luis said. If it's a test will they be publishing the criterion to be measured beforehand? It seems to me that this might be a good test of what happens to a society if you teach loads of kids to meditate, but not a good test of any supernatural powers like the ME. The problem is that the subjects will be living amongst the people that will ultimately be measured on how they behave. This a very poor control. 250,000 is a lot of people to suddenly have some sort of transformational experience, it seems highly likely that any effect they get off TM will affect their parents and beyond. Even if it's just enthusiasm or them absorbing the general values of the TMO (but hopefully not its leaders) you won't ever be able to say that what is happening in society is because of increased "coherence" due to exposure to some sort of unknown field effect and not just a happier atmosphere at home. It wouldn't get past James Randi at any rate, which is a shame because his million dollar prize would pay for a lot of Girish's legal fees. The only way you'll prove the ME - without coming up with an explanation of how it might possibly work - is by having a large group of people in a troubled country without anyone else knowing about it. That's the only way you'll be sure that you aren't just measuring some sort of happy upward trend like when a country's national team wins a football match or something. Marshy said that individual people are the units of world peace and I agree but it isn't how the ME is supposed to work and that's what we are interested in but at least we'll get an idea of how large scale meditation works - if indeed it does. Unless of course, the Marshy effect is so overwhelmingly obvious that the world sits up and takes note and we all live happily ever after and Nabby's highly trained Space Teachers aren't even needed! I remain optimistic but not holding my breath. Just a heads up. If you get any other info do post it here. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote : So often the exercise of our policy of the TM movement was all about science testing in large ways. A failure more recently was that we never really got the critical and necessary large numbers to be able to pursue the replication studies during the Invincibility courses. Never got the critical numbers over 2,000 meditating in America together for long enough. Did not get the requisite numbers of pundits together for long enough. The livestock evidently has left the barn, left the barnyard too and gone down the road. That simply is where TM is at now for its fund-raising to do large science anymore. Seems now aground on shoals of past ethical performance. Apparently towards the end as it became evident that the Howard Settle money was not going to be forthcoming any longer they canvased other rich people for supplemental support in donations to bring more pundits and keep the course going, the response was: 'let me see other people do it before I do it' ..Herding cats. The project evidently foundered for a basic lack of trust of the inside. Damn. That was even before Girish Varma came to be in his troubles and put in to 'judicial-custody' jail in India for evident improprieties that could then be read about in the papers. It does have to be said that if the unavoidable positivity of TM and the Marshy Effect were a real thing maybe Girish wouldn't be on bail for sexual assault and various other sinister charges? Even if it all turns out to be untrue, should the head of the TMO really be a magnet for such obvious incoherence? It would make it the opposite of what I would expect, kind of an anti-nature support. But if it's true..... This is not at all good for substantial data collection in the process of science replication of some extremely important hypothesis testing. Maybe it's the undermining effect of events like these that will render further testing unnecessary in the eyes of the world's scientists? After all, if it doesn't work for us..... Going forward as a movement this is going to take some serious leadership to recuperate from and re-group. No kidding. And the vast majority of people in the TMO don't know about it due to the secretive nature of the leadership. In fact, I don't know anyone who has even heard of Girish. Boy do they get a shock. For all the world I wish them well. -Buck “The point is to get 8000+ to gather in one place *every single day*. That isn't easy to do.” # Replicating the Science: Within TM the progressive element who deep down inside just wants to teach TM, see it work out, would also really like to be able to replicate the large-scale science. Data and the science testing of hypothesis is always what we were about historically. That was what the Invincible America Course was about recently and the bringing of pundits to Vedic City too. So often the exercise of policy of the TM movement was all about science testing in a large way. The failure more recently was that they never really got the critical large numbers to be able to pursue the replication studies. Never got the critical numbers over 2,000 meditating together for long enough. Did not get the requisite numbers of pundits together for long enough. That is where TM is at now for its fund-raising to do large science. Seemingly run aground on its past ethical performance. Apparently as it became evident that the Howard Settle money was not going to be forthcoming any more they canvased other rich people for supplemental supporting donations to bring more pundits, the response was 'let me see other people do it before I do it'. The project foundered for a basic lack of trust of the inside. Damn. That was even before Girish Varma got in to trouble in India. -Buck LEnglish5 has put his finger on something around the science replication of what were preliminary and evidently good results. His point is looking at how to replicate given the practical and real constraints of such large replication research. This is extremely important as to the fate and course of the TM movement going forward. Maharishi drove the TM movement for decades with 'big science' of hypothesis testing based on observation. The 'big science' work now evidently is constrained and it seems the constraint is rooted a cultural problem within TM about the availability of money now from within the TM community itself. This is actually where MJ seems to have a related point about behavior. TM replication research is suffering in a constraint right now from our old ethical problems about money in TM and broad perceptions in the community of old financial dealings. Those perceptions even within TM quite evidently have been corrosive and eroding within communal TM itself. This is very much part of what makes moot now the gatherings of high enough numbers of people meditating in groups, high enough numbers of students meditating in our schools, and high enough numbers of pundits in Vedic City or in India to be able to gather significant data and test hypothesis. Money. The practical and serious obstacle to replication research that Sparaig is raising is a lack of forthcoming money coming out of the meditating community and a general lack of numbers of meditators (aside from Latin America) available in the TM movement now stemming in a malaise of historical ethical dissonance. -Buck Replication, as 'proper' Science process: LEnglish5 is entirely correct. “The point is to get 8000+ to gather in one place *every single day*. That isn't easy to do.” Anti-science skeptics could say, “..one could just as easily say that Science is another way we have of kidding ourselves!” Honest people would fairly answer: “Not really, the whole point of science is that we have a system of testing that tells us whether we are kidding ourselves, ..Same with all branches of science, it allows you to say with some certainty that what you have is knowledge rather than belief and knowing that the certainty isn't complete allows for further refinement all the time.” ..TM and Maharishi haters may try to cut it all off at the knees by asserting the research was all bad but actually the Meissner-like Effect of Consciousness research was quite good enough to get published in respected places. What remains to do is replication. Of course. -Buck Yes, a tragic failure of the recent Invincible America course is that it never achieved significant large-scale numbers to perform replication Meissner Effect of consciousness research with. ..that the overall administration of the Invincible America course allowed the numbers to fragment by sending important groups of Purusha and Mother Divine away as the numbers were approaching critical mass. That was a huge disappointment to all the progressive elements of the TM movement. The longer course of human history will very likely regret that sad flaw of dispersal and fragmentation of the TM movement that was allowed for in the administration of the numbers meditating during that time. Was a very unfortunate turn of events. I certainly hope for the best though, that angels of a better nature can achieve significant results in well controlled large-scale Meissner Effect of consciousness science research in Latin America where our gringo administration of the Invincible America course it seems were unable to allow themselves to. -U.S. Buck in the Dome LEnglish5 is entirely correct: “The point is to get 8000+ to gather in one place *every single day*. That isn't easy to do.” mjackson74 writes: whatever they use to claim world peace is a-coming when they look at group TMSP From: "LEnglish5@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 12:28 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Square Roots What global weekly statistics would you use to measure the effect? L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mjackson74@...> wrote : I would like to see a scientific experiment - get 8,000 yogic flyers together in one place for a week and see how things change or don't change. Then get another 8,000 together and let em eat garlic and guzzle beer. Then measure all the same stuff and see what happens - I'm betting the garlic and beer crowd creates more sattvic effect than the yogis From: "LEnglish5@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Square Roots You are quite possibly correct, Michael, but wouldn't it be fun if you turned out to be wrong in this case? L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mjackson74@...> wrote : Hardly - they haven't done it in 40 years when Marshy was alive and they won't do it now that he's dead - and if they did it would have the same effect as if 8,000 people got together and ate garlic and guzzled beer all day long - same effect on world vibes From: "awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 10:00 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Square Roots ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <LEnglish5@...> wrote : The point is to get 8000+ to gather in one place *every single day*. That isn't easy to do. However, Raja Luis says that there are large groups of Yogic Flyers in South America, and that within the next year or two, several private universities will be teaching TM to all their students, with the TM-Sidhis to follow shortly. Likewise, Father Gabriel Mejia already requires all his staff to be TMers and is having them all learn the TM-Sidhis as well. This is a scattered group of 700, so it's not enough, but the President of Brazil is also a TMer and Raja Luis claims she wants at least one group of 1500 Yogic Flyers in Brazil. If all goes according to plan, eventually there will be 1 million Yogic Flyers in Brazil as a side effect of 45 million school age kids learning. THAT will be interesting. L MJ is stroking out as we speak... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mjackson74@...> wrote : A nice post from the MUMOSA facebook page: World population is 7,046,000,000 ... and 1% of that is 70,460,000 people -- the square root of which is 8,395 people. This begs the question: If transcendental meditation is thriving in its scientific validity, then why can't transcendental meditation synchronize a mere 8,395 people in it's practice? Because apparently transcendental meditation is either: A) Not thriving B) Making false claims C) All of the above.
