---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote :
Exactly, Ann! This "enlightenment" or whatever it is, means living life, all cylinders - trying the mysterious, the scary, the achingly beautiful, with possible trepidation, all of it, yet, pushing through that last boundary, to experience the world, always, in its freshness, liveliness, and endless creativity. I remember doing so much of that, for my entire life, so many adventures. It seems like bawee and some of the others have possibly done a few interesting things during their lives, and now they mostly lie around and reminisce, casting a droll, cynical and exhausted perspective, everywhere. Pardon my French, but, UGGGGHHH! BARF!! HOLY FUCK! Life is for continued growth and enjoyment, and the wiser we get, the more there is to enjoy. I was cutting trails in the woods with my chainsaw (luckily I don't play golf), the other day, and later realized the wildlife were instantly using the improved trails. Later in the day, coyote voices rose out of the east canyon. Still later, water bombers from Cal Fire, put out a blaze a couple of ridges away, and the moon that night lit the landscape like lunar snow. That's ONE FUCKING DAY. They are all like that - endless adventures and discoveries, some big, like mountain climbing, and some small, like a sweet phone call from my daughter. What I see in those denigrating enlightenment, is an absence of this life's blood, this vigor, vitality, and endless wonder. Enlightenment is not some contest, or game to reach the bottom first. It happens, and we are the better for it. Not that it is interesting by itself, but ;like the hershey's syrup I poured over vanilla ice cream, last night, it makes the whole thing more delicious. Wheee! I love it. You describe how I live, or at least attempt to. Every flutter of the heart, every leap of adrenaline, all the sublime moments when you lie listening to a distant owl or the mating frogs on the pond outside your window - all of these things are beyond richness and gifts. I lack the desire to define it. I am such a visceral person. I love to cram every sense I have with all of the input I can find, I welcome experience. Pressing my nose against the velvet nostrils of my horse and sucking it all in, burying my face in the doggy fur of my mutts and inhaling deeply, walking face upturned in the pouring rain - how much better does it get than that? If there is something even greater than this and it's called "enlightenment" then wowzer. I'm pretty content right now, feeling it all - having to be brave when courage doesn't seem to be forthcoming, being sad because you have just had a loss so deep it seems to know no limits and your guts are turned inside out. And you sit in this and burn and feel until somehow it is lifted away. This is life, this is what is worth knowing and living. And yea, I like lots of chocolate syrup but it HAS to be vanilla ice cream. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <awoelflebater@...> wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <turquoiseb@...> wrote : From: "anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> Steve, You do need to pay attention to what other people say about enlightenment, otherwise there are no markers as to whether you have made progress or not. But then, who has the 'right' markers? There are lots of descriptions of enlightenment in various traditions. Jim's experience is one of them, but it has me being suspicious because he has said rather little of it in detail, other than he has it, and he knows others do not. The only teacher I know of who describes enlightenment in great detail from start to finish, from a more 'personal' perspective, warts and all, is Adyashanti. There may be other teachers I do not know of, undoubtedly. Maharishi's system appears to have some general benchmarks, but it seems many have had experiences that are of another quality. The jury is out on this for me, but Jim seems to avoid going into much detail about his experience. 'Silence 24/7', a big release when it dawned, 'every perception sees the infinity of the object, unity prevailing', but generally not particularly creative in going beyond stock phrases that could be lifted from Maharishi's tapes. Because he seems to be interested in creativity and expression, I think he could do better at this and make up his own words for this, because then you get more of a feeling of a connexion with a person's mind. To me Jim seems more bluster than Brahman, but I do feel he had a profound experience from his point of view. I would just like to know more about it, and he seems reluctant to go into more detail. Also Jim seemed not to understand descriptions of enlightenment from other perspectives, such as Vedanta, which should not be a problem. Just something seems missing to me. Jim's performance strikes me as low resolution bravura, and seems more interested in telling the tale of it and how it compares to others' than in using it to illuminate our understanding about it. And Jim also said of Barry 'Barry told a silly little story about some western-bubbleized person having a good time, and then realizing instead they were a victim of karma, with a mind full of thoughts'. This was a cut and paste a friend sent to Barry from Sam Harris's book. It was an illustration that we can have experience which we misinterpret as enlightenment, but the story was part of a larger context in the book. I do think Barry was making a veiled reference to Jim, for Barry thinks Jim's enlightenment is faux enlightenment, and the story Sam Harris told was just that. Barry simply reposted the excerpt sent to him by Vaj, because it is a comment on the issue of Neo-Advaitan pseudo-enlightenment we've discussed here many times. Barry does not believe anyone on this forum is enlightened, no matter how much they claim to be, and has said so many times. If the ones doing the claiming get their panties in a twist over it, he considers that proof that they're not enlightened, and thanks them for providing it. :-) For the record, Barry also does not read any FFL posts made by either Richard or Steve, and doesn't much care whether they stop eating and die, because that wouldn't affect him in any way. If Edg or Anartaxius fasted themselves to death stopped posting to FFL he would probably miss their writing for a day or so but he'd get over it. Seems to me people should get over themselves and get back to the business of being ordinary. :-) Yes, follow bawee's example and become very, very ordinary. There is nothing like being mediocre, average, run-of-the-mill, suburban, unmemorable, unexceptional, commonplace, humdrum, middle-of-the-road, dull, bland or conventional. Keep showing us how, bawee, so far you're doin' great.
