You know Steve, it took others years to find his true 
character. Bob Price managed to find that out in just a few 
minutes time. Bob's so sharp, Uncle Tantra cannot face him.
Uncle Tantra's criticism is designed to be offensive in a 
sadistic sense.

--- <steve.sundur@...> wrote :

 Okay Blue, thanks for the advice.  But "wasting my life"? 

 I think I fall into the Ann camp.  

 I find Barry to have, shall we say, his own fair share of blind spots, which 
of course is not a problem, except that he is so intent on pointing out in 
others, what he feels are their deficiencies.

 Oh, and by the way, I did enjoy Jim's portrayal of Barry's trip to the ice box.

 A good example, I think, of one of those blind spots of Barry's.

 But, I do appreciate the concern.  (-:

--- <blue_bungalow_2@...> wrote :

 Relax Steve, have you re-incarnated as Judy here? Some 
change seems to have come over you.

Listen, you just can't bother about him. You will be wasting 
your life that way. Judy wasted hers. Jim wasted his. His 
intention is to provoke you. You keep falling into his trap 
again and again.

I remember you relaxed and logical many years ago. Uncle 
Tantra is incorrigible.

--- <steve.sundur@...> wrote :

 I'm sure what you've written below, Barry, is the "usual", but my God, what 
pent up demand there must be when there is not an opening for the "usual". 

 You are just going to town.  A welcome relief, I guess.

Easy Barry, easy.  Enough with the posturing for the "lurking reporters".  We 
get your faux outrage. 

 This issue has importance for you only in the sense that you can do some TM 

 Other than that, I don't think you give a damn.

 Settle back down.


--- <turquoiseb@...> wrote :

 -- <salyavin808@...> wrote:
--- <turquoiseb@...> wrote :

 Sometimes I think that Maharishi's "greatest accomplishment" should be listed 
as having taken so many at-one-time-fairly-intelligent people and, over time, 
turned them into weak-minded, gullible idiots like jr_esq, Share, srijau, 
Lawson, and others we see from time to time here on FFL. These people will 
believe *anything* if 1) they're told that Maharishi or some other Seller Of 
Woo Woo believed in it, and 2) it makes them feel more self-important and 
'special' for believing it. 

 The stuff they believe doesn't need to be reasonable, it doesn't need to 
follow the laws of physics or chemistry, and it doesn't depend on any kind of 
evidence. In fact, when presented with evidence that proves their belief to be 
nonsense, they believe even more strongly. Truly an accomplishment...


-- <salyavin808@...> wrote:

 Yes indeed, something to be proud of. 

The sad thing is that he (Maharishi) *would* actually be proud of it. He'd 
think of it as the triumph of faith. He'd smile and tell the story of 
Trotakacharya again.  :-) 

 I first came across it when attending a "coherence" day at the local academy 
(where I later lived) we were in the garden on a starry night and looking 
around the night sky and I was pointing out various things of interest like 
which planets were which and how far the nearest galaxy is when this purusha 
guy turned to me and said "And just think it's all consciousness". What's 
troubling is it was said with an intimation that it was an improvement or a 
superior explanation to "just" thinking that the universe is made of energy and 

 It worries me because scientific and religious explanations don't mix very 
well but the quantum crowd think they've found a way of fitting the one into 
the other, or at least blinding people with enough abstract concepts so they 
think the two things belong together.

 It does annoy me too because people, like John, seem genuinely interested in 
physics and the sort of things it explains really well and the amazing 
discoveries and concepts of cosmology. But with this training in vedic beliefs 
he gets from the TMO he doesn't have a way of grading the knowledge for 

Exactly. The *only* measure of "quality" he seems to employ is "If it agrees 
with what I've been told to believe...then it is good, and correct." The most 
disturbing thing about John (jr_esq, not Hagelin, but him, too) is that they no 
longer even *realize* how non-scientific they've become when they spout what 
they now believe is "science." Put either of them in a room with real 
scientists and let them express the things they believe in, and the real 
scientists would have them pegged as crackpots within five minutes. After 20 
minutes, the real scientists would running for the door, so as not to be stuck 
in a room with a crazy person any longer. 

There are only two types of explanation, good ones and bad ones. Consciousness 
in this context seems like a bad one because (like god) it actually explains 
nothing, adds nothing useful and in fact, adds a layer of complexity where it 
isn't needed...

Exactly. Almost without exception, all of their theories about how the universe 
works are more complex than the real scientific explanations. It's like they've 
become proponents of the Anti-Occam's Razor Principle.

...because consciousness is a thing in this theory, a field of pure awareness 
and intelligence. All of these things imply a direction to creation and 
evolution that it doesn't seem to have. And it obviously requires another 
explanation beyond the equations describing quantum behaviour, and it would be 
an explanation along the lines of intelligence processing etc. Bit of a tall 
order for something we can't even measure!

 It's OK for John Hagelin to believe that this is the case but he shouldn't 
start his lectures without a major caveat to the effect that he's trying to fit 
what he knows of physics into an ancient belief system and that no one else 
agrees with him. Apart from the other yagya pedlars on the conference circuit 
In this sense, Hagelin is actually closer to the role that Charlie Lutes played 
within the TM movement than anything else. Charlie used to pepper his talks 
with all sorts of esoteric crap that he'd learned from his days studying 
Western Mysticism. Which would have been fine, except that he didn't *present* 
it that way. He implied that everything he was saying came from Maharishi, and 
was therefore part of Maharishi's teachings. Hagelin does the same thing with 
his own crackpot theories, presenting them as if they were real science, when 
they're not.

The thing I see in people like jr_esq, Jim, srijau, Share, and Nabby (not to 
mention Hagelin and Tony Nader) is that in their supposed "quest for knowledge" 
their minds seem to turn off the instant they hear (or think up) an 
"explanation" or conspiracy theory that makes them go "Woooooo." It's an 
emotional thang IMO. They "seek knowledge" until they find something that 
agrees with what they've already been told to believe and thus gives them an 
endorphin rush of self-importance. At that point their minds shut down and stop 
functioning. Just think of the way that jr_esq keeps trotting out a medieval 
"proof" of God's existence that has been discredited for hundreds of years. The 
moment he heard it, and found something that he could consider "proof" of what 
he already wanted to believe, he stopped listening to anything else. 

I tend to believe that Faith is synonymous with Willful Ignorance. 

The moment you decide that you "know" the "truth" of something, that is the 
point at which you stop looking for deeper truths and being open to new 


 From: salyavin808 <>
 Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 8:11 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are Aliens too Distant for Contact?
   ---In, <jr_esq@...> wrote :

 If you believe that the universe is based in consciousness, 

 I don't. That's the problem, just "believing" stuff about the universe and 
hoping you can find enough things to justify beliefs you have already decided 
are true without any evidence is no way to go about learning what's going on.

 The idea that thoughts are entangled quantumly with the rest of the universe 
is nonsense, classical information -  that which can distinguish one thing from 
another -  cannot get entangled and therefore can't be transmitted.

 then our thoughts are somehow "entangled" in a quantum sense with the rest of 
the universe.  So, it is possible to communicate telepathically with other 
sentient beings instantaneously in our galaxy or with the rest of the universe.

 I'm sure that if it was possible we'd be able to do it here, probably wouldn't 
even need this internet thingy in the way. As it is we appear separate from 
each other.

 There used to be a question similar to the following:  if a tree fell in a 
forest of an earth-like planet 1,000 light years away from us, would it make a 
sound?  My answer is yes, because consciousnes is present there and everywhere 
else in the universe.  And, somehow our own consciousness is linked--or 
entangled--with that universel consciousness.

 I think you'll find that sound is pressure waves in the atmosphere, sure it 
needs our consciousness to interpret what is going on but it will make whatever 
sound it makes whether anyone is there or not. Or whether the universe is 
conscious or not.

---In, <> wrote :

 ---In, <jr_esq@...> wrote :

 That's a good question.  We may not get any message back at all since the 
radio waves are relatively slow in comparison to the large distances involved 
in the scale of the Milky Way and the entire universe.  Also, the earth-like 
planets near us may not have any advanced civilizations like ours.  Or, that 
their living beings are still in the microbial, plant or animal stages.

 My point is that, if there are any advanced human-like  civilizations in the 
Milk Way, they would be communicating with us telepathically or through lucid 
dreams.  For example, a few years ago, there was a psychic here on FFL who 
posted that he was able to communicate telepathically with another being from 
the Pleaides star system.  I believe Rick knows the guy who also lives in 
Fairfield, Iowa.

 OK, the first problem is: why would telepathic waves travel faster than light? 
Or rather, how could they travel faster than light? And that's forgetting the 
obvious question of brains being not all that strong compared to, say, Jodrell 
bank radio telescope! So the send/receive function is going to be a bit limited.

 The other big problem is that the Pleaides system is pretty much the last 
place you will find life in our galaxy, a bunch of very young white-hot 
supergiant stars. Life of any organic type aint happening there, or anywhere 

 That's typical of science, always spoiling people's fun. UFO contactees used 
to say they'd met beings from Venus or Mars until the harsh reality of the 
climate on those worlds drove their imaginary aliens away to the outer planets 
first and then on to more distant star systems. Not sure why the Pleaides got 
chosen as a home for the Space Brothers. They do look nice though, especially 
through a telescope as you can still see the blue nebulae that the stars formed 
out of.




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