This is what Zen masters call 'selling water by the river'. We end up embroiled 
in a spiritual path because we think it will eliminate our dissatisfaction with 
life, but the dissatisfaction comes from the way we construe life to be. Life 
can indeed be horrible, and there are certain things that require courage and 
fortitude to get through. All that 'enlightenment' brings is the realisation 
that life is exactly the way it is and no other way, that it was always this 
way, before and during ones sojourn on 'the path', and that no other way is 
possible henceforth, and this eliminates seeking behaviour and a particular 
sort of non-object-oriented fulfilment results because the mind is not spinning 
its wheels over nonsense. Then you get to live the rest of your life without 
those pernicious ideas you acquired before and during your spiritual quest. 
There is still plenty to do or not do, depending on your inclination.

To quote the Vedantist James Swartz:

'If you can see that the question of freedom is due to a lack understanding, 
you will be open to a means of self knowledge. A means of self knowledge does 
not actually give you self knowledge, because everyone actually does know who 
they are... Unfortunately, there is usually a lack of clarity about the nature 
of the self, which impedes the full appreciation of it. This lack of clarity 
manifests as ill considered beliefs and opinions, particularly the belief that 
the self is limited. If you expose your mind to a ... means of self knowledge, 
it will patiently strip away these beliefs and clarity will return. When the 
last vestige of ignorance is removed, you will realize that you knew who you 
were all along. You will find it amusing that you went through so much seeking 
to find out what you already knew.... You are not getting something you do not 
have; you simply realize that what you sought so frantically you had all along. 
Enlightenment should be cause
 for embarrassment, not jubilation.'
The above paragraph assumes that the 'means of self knowledge' will actually 
work. Sometimes it seems otherwise, especially when one is around spiritual 
types. It seems to me that 'masters' tend not to hang out together. Fraudulent 
masters perhaps do not want their con exposed, and real masters, who know what 
the real con is, really do not have anything to talk about with each other, 
because there is nothing at the end of the rainbow in this business. You end up 
where you started, with a net loss.

 From: "TurquoiseBee [FairfieldLife]" 
To: "" <> 
Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are Aliens too Distant for Contact?

From: salyavin808 <>

---In, <turquoiseb@...> wrote :

Sometimes I think that Maharishi's "greatest accomplishment" should be listed 
as having taken so many at-one-time-fairly-intelligent people and, over time, 
turned them into weak-minded, gullible idiots like jr_esq, Share, srijau, 
Lawson, and others we see from time to time here on FFL. These people will 
believe *anything* if 1) they're told that Maharishi or some other Seller Of 
Woo Woo believed in it, and 2) it makes them feel more self-important and 
'special' for believing it. 

The stuff they believe doesn't need to be reasonable, it doesn't need to follow 
the laws of physics or chemistry, and it doesn't depend on any kind of 
evidence. In fact, when presented with evidence that proves their belief to be 
nonsense, they believe even more strongly. Truly an accomplishment...

Yes indeed, something to be proud of. 

The sad thing is that he (Maharishi) *would* actually be proud of it. He'd 
think of it as the triumph of faith. He'd smile and tell the story of 
Trotakacharya again.  :-) 

I first came across it when attending a "coherence" day at the local academy 
(where I later lived) we were in the garden on a starry night and looking 
around the night sky and I was pointing out various things of interest like 
which planets were which and how far the nearest galaxy is when this purusha 
guy turned to me and said "And just think it's all consciousness". What's 
troubling is it was said with an intimation that it was an improvement or a 
superior explanation to "just" thinking that the universe is made of energy and 

It worries me because scientific and religious explanations don't mix very well 
but the quantum crowd think they've found a way of fitting the one into the 
other, or at least blinding people with enough abstract concepts so they think 
the two things belong together.

It does annoy me too because people, like John, seem genuinely interested in 
physics and the sort of things it explains really well and the amazing 
discoveries and concepts of cosmology. But with this training in vedic beliefs 
he gets from the TMO he doesn't have a way of grading the knowledge for 

Exactly. The *only* measure of "quality" he seems to employ is "If it agrees 
with what I've been told to believe...then it is good, and correct." The most 
disturbing thing about John (jr_esq, not Hagelin, but him, too) is that they no 
longer even *realize* how non-scientific they've become when they spout what 
they now believe is "science." Put either of them in a room with real 
scientists and let them express the things they believe in, and the real 
scientists would have them pegged as crackpots within five minutes. After 20 
minutes, the real scientists would running for the door, so as not to be stuck 
in a room with a crazy person any longer. 

There are only two types of explanation, good ones and bad ones. Consciousness 
in this context seems like a bad one because (like god) it actually explains 
nothing, adds nothing useful and in fact, adds a layer of complexity where it 
isn't needed...

Exactly. Almost without exception, all of their theories about how the universe 
works are more complex than the real scientific explanations. It's like they've 
become proponents of the Anti-Occam's Razor Principle.

...because consciousness is a thing in this theory, a field of pure awareness 
and intelligence. All of these things imply a direction to creation and 
evolution that it doesn't seem to have. And it obviously requires another 
explanation beyond the equations describing quantum behaviour, and it would be 
an explanation along the lines of intelligence processing etc. Bit of a tall 
order for something we can't even measure!

It's OK for John Hagelin to believe that this is the case but he shouldn't 
start his lectures without a major caveat to the effect that he's trying to fit 
what he knows of physics into an ancient belief system and that no one else 
agrees with him. Apart from the other yagya pedlars on the conference circuit 

In this sense, Hagelin is actually closer to the role that Charlie Lutes played 
within the TM movement than anything else. Charlie used to pepper his talks 
with all sorts of esoteric crap that he'd learned from his days studying 
Western Mysticism. Which would have been fine, except that he didn't *present* 
it that way. He implied that everything he was saying came from Maharishi, and 
was therefore part of Maharishi's teachings. Hagelin does the same thing with 
his own crackpot theories, presenting them as if they were real science, when 
they're not.

The thing I see in people like jr_esq, Jim, srijau, Share, and Nabby (not to 
mention Hagelin and Tony Nader) is that in their supposed "quest for knowledge" 
their minds seem to turn off the instant they hear (or think up) an 
"explanation" or conspiracy theory that makes them go "Woooooo." It's an 
emotional thang IMO. They "seek knowledge" until they find something that 
agrees with what they've already been told to believe and thus gives them an 
endorphin rush of self-importance. At that point their minds shut down and stop 
functioning. Just think of the way that jr_esq keeps trotting out a medieval 
"proof" of God's existence
 that has been discredited for hundreds of years. The moment he heard it, and 
found something that he could consider "proof" of what he already wanted to 
believe, he stopped listening to anything else. 

I tend to believe that Faith is synonymous with Willful Ignorance. 

The moment you decide that you "know" the "truth" of something, that is the 
point at which you stop looking for deeper truths and being open to new 

From: salyavin808 <>
Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 8:11 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are Aliens too Distant for Contact?

---In, <jr_esq@...> wrote :


If you believe that the universe is based in consciousness, 

I don't. That's the problem, just "believing" stuff about the universe and 
hoping you can find enough things to justify beliefs you have already decided 
are true without any evidence is no way to go about learning what's going on.

The idea that thoughts are entangled quantumly with the rest of the universe is 
nonsense, classical information -  that which can distinguish one thing from 
another -  cannot get entangled and therefore can't be transmitted.

then our thoughts are somehow "entangled" in a quantum sense with the rest of 
the universe.  So, it is possible to communicate telepathically with other 
sentient beings instantaneously in our galaxy or with the rest of the universe.

I'm sure that if it was possible we'd be able to do it here, probably wouldn't 
even need this internet thingy in the way. As it is we appear separate from 
each other.

There used to
be a question similar to the following:  if a tree fell in a forest of an 
earth-like planet 1,000 light years away from us, would it make a sound?  My 
answer is yes, because consciousnes is present there and everywhere else in the 
universe.  And, somehow our own consciousness is linked--or entangled--with 
that universel consciousness.

I think you'll find that sound is pressure waves in the atmosphere, sure it 
needs our consciousness to interpret what is going on but it will make whatever 
sound it makes whether anyone is there or not. Or whether the universe is 
conscious or not.

 <> wrote :

---In, <jr_esq@...> wrote :


That's a good question.  We may not get any message back at all since the radio 
waves are relatively slow in comparison to the large distances involved in the 
scale of the Milky Way and the entire universe.  Also, the earth-like planets 
near us may not have any advanced civilizations like ours.  Or, that their 
living beings are still in the microbial, plant or animal stages.

My point is that, if there are
any advanced human-like  civilizations in the Milk Way, they would be 
communicating with us telepathically or through lucid dreams.  For example, a 
few years ago, there was a psychic here on FFL who posted that he was able to 
communicate telepathically with another being from the Pleaides star system.  I 
believe Rick knows the guy who also lives in Fairfield, Iowa.

OK, the first problem is: why would telepathic waves travel faster than light? 
Or rather, how could they travel faster than light? And that's forgetting the 
obvious question of brains
being not all that strong compared to, say, Jodrell bank radio telescope! So 
the send/receive function is going to be a bit limited.

The other big problem is that the Pleaides system is pretty much the last place 
you will find life in our galaxy, a bunch of very young white-hot supergiant 
stars. Life of any organic type aint happening there, or anywhere close. 

That's typical of science, always spoiling people's fun. UFO contactees used to 
say they'd met beings from Venus or Mars until the harsh reality of the climate 
on those worlds drove their imaginary aliens away to the outer planets first 
and then on to more distant star systems. Not sure why the Pleaides got chosen 
as a home for the Space Brothers. They do look nice though, especially through 
a telescope as you can still see the blue nebulae that the stars formed out of.

---In, <s3raphita@...> wrote :

---In, <jr_esq@...> wrote :

Yes, probably so, if the means of communication is through light or radio 

I enjoyed that moment in the movie Contact where the first TV signal that 
aliens would have received from Earth was Hitler's speech at the 1936 Olympics. 
The idea has since been dismissed by scientists as it seems that the 
transmission signal was very low powered so is unlikely to be picked out 
amongst all the background radiation in space.
But what will their first Earth TV signal be? I Love Lucy? Baywatch? American 
Perhaps the best hope is that it's some global warming/ecological doom-laden 
documentary so that the aliens conclude it's not worth
wasting time invading our dying planet.

As such, the speed of communication is limited by the speed of light.  But it 
is theoretically possible to contact ETs through telepathic means or lucid 

Why?  Because consciousness pervades the entire universe.  So, communication 
through consciousness is faster than the speed of light.  IMO, the Srimad 
Bhagavatam has given us clues of this type of communication in the story 
relating to Urvasi, the heavenly apsara.  She supposedly can be found taking a 
bath in the region near
the Pleiades, which is placed in beginning degrees of Taurus.

>From my experience, everyone--perhaps, more so for males--can see Urvasi 
>through lucid dreaming when the Moon is transiting the 3rd quarter of Krittika 
>nakshatra.  She appears as a beautiful female during a dream.

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