On 10/11/2014 12:20 PM, salyavin808 wrote:

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <noozguru@...> wrote :

Image if your local police department reported a murder as "someone shot the person. Case closed" That's almost what the 9-11 official story is like.

You would have been well advised not to use "RationalWiki" which skeptics don't even like. Those of us who think there is something more to a case than reported don't call ourselves "conspiracy theorists." That term has come about and used by PSYOPS to discredit us since the JFK assassination which I don't think Oswald had anything to do with because he had a cheap gun and was seen in the lunch room at the book depository when the assassination took place. He was a convenience patsy due to his activities. If Ruby had not shot him it might have come out that he got framed.

Jeez, everyone knows Elvis shot JFK. It's hardly news.

Anyone on the right track to solving these crimes who has any visibility such as a news reporter often gets offed or suicided. Some of the "nutty stuff" you will find in "conspiracy theorist" are PSYOPS trying to "poison the well" lest the truth be known. Just think if we could prove beyond a doubt that 9-11 was indeed an inside job and who the perps were how confidence in our government would fall, not that it isn't anyway. And we have long had little confidence in our corporations and banks which these days run like gang operations.

After reading the articles Barry posted I was going to write something about how conspiracy theories are probably created by the government to distract everyone from what a crap job they actually do at running the country. Be nice to think there was someone in power who could organise a job that big, we can't even make a computer system to link up health districts without the ministry going bankrupt and abandoning it.

The USA is a very dirty place. It was that way from it's inception because some of the wealthy landowners didn't want their workers to have rights and some wanted the US to still be beholding to Britain. Our democracy is an illusion and the king makers hate anyone who points that out. A lot more people would have probably taken to the streets during the Occupy Movement but they feared losing their jobs. We live in a country of increasing "have nots", people who have lost even their simple pleasures of life because a plan to put all but a few in austerity.

So many detractors here seem to have little knowledge of history and just react emotionally. I guess some folks want to live in a simple world of Santy Claus and Easter Bunnies.

Both of which are inventions, just like the conspiracies.

What worries is me that you have such a disconnect from the people that run the US that you actually think they would murder thousands of their own people for reasons best known to themselves.

Whoa, Jack! You're half reading me. I'm not alleging that our politicians conspired to pull off 9-11. It's a shadow government that many people in the US believe exists (and probably many folks in the UK believe about your own government). Killing thousands would rile up Americans (and believe me the days following they were insanely riled) to support anything the government asked if it involved retaliation. So Arab terrorists did 9-11 and we go off and bomb Afghanistan and Iraq. Shouldn't we have bombed Saudi Arabia instead? Something wrong with that picture?

BTW, for some reason a lot of people who worked at the WTC were told to stay home that day.

There's a kind of movement like that in the UK about the Islamic terrorist that blew up some tube trains a decade ago. The story goes that the government knew about it but let it happen because it would be an excuse to rachet up the anti-terror laws, which completely coincidentally can also be used to harass innocent people whenever the state feels like it.

The UK subway bombings indeed smell of a false flag. These types of operations have been around for centuries but I guess that history wasn't your favorite subject?

I don't believe it for the simple fact that however cynical politicians get it's their own friends and family that might get blown up. You don't seem to have that sort of human link, sure the govt in the US has blood on its hands but the 9/11 conspiracies are qualitatively different from interfering in the politics of left wing countries or suppressing anti-capitalist demonstrations. It isn't a quantitative thing at all.

See my above comment.

I think it's the conspiracists that react emotionally, something unbelievable happens and the dots get joined up irrationally, anything to make it make sense that doesn't just mean the world is so dangerous a bunch of religious fruitcakes can walk onto planes in America and fly them into public buildings. I'd hate to live in a country where I thought the government would actually blow me up as an excuse for starting a war in a third world country, some of the residents of which had already made some bold attacks on the US - unless they were conspiracies too.

In the 1960s they wanted to send us young guys off to the rice paddies of Vietnam to get our asses shot off. Gulf of Tonkin is a confirmed false flag to gain public support. The poor Vietnamese just wanted their country back after centuries of domination by foreign powers. Now we do trade with them. Go figger.

Because of the crap you can find on youtube, I know people who actually think ISIS and Al Queda don't exist at all and were created so the "west" can clamp down on personal freedom. We realists know they just used the 9/11 and 7/7 bombings as an excuse for that.....

This history of Al Qaeda is well known from their existence as Mujahideen and supported by our CIA to fight against the Russians in Afghanistan. They've now morphed into ISIS. Some of us weren't born yesterday. BTW, when is it you turn 1? :-D

    On 10/11/2014 10:46 AM, seerdope@... <mailto:seerdope@...>
    [FairfieldLife] wrote:

The term “conspiracy theory”, though I use it myself, is a two-edged sword that may have outlived its usefulness. Those challenging mainstream knowledge and conventions are routinely cast as conspiracy nuts – and implying that such nut jobs glob onto many such “oddball” explanations of the universe as a crutch to cope with reality, It has acquired a derogatory meaning and can become a perverse tool applied to dismiss or ridicule unconventional beliefs, a tool of suppressing sincere inquiry and challenging of prevailing norms and wisdom, defying gut instincts (aka cognitive biases) and seeking truth no matter where it takes you and at what costa.

Many breakthroughs and new understanding of how the world works, including counter-culture ideas, and challenges to the establishment, have been initially derided as crack-pot ideas, conspiracy theories, promoted by nut jobs. Derision of challenging and troubling ideas is a core defense mechanism.

A vast list of crack-pot ideas, inflammatory, and/or conspiracy-driven dibble has unfolded and become in our lifetimes mainstream wisdom – a few, both large and small (may) include (not in any order of impact or importance: the Snowden leaks, Pentagon Papers, Lewinsky’s blue dress, lack of weapons of mass destruction, Judith Bourque’s book, Iran-Contra, the Madoff scandal, genocides and mass murder of German concentration camps, Stalin, Mao, Khmer Rouge, Sudan, Native Americans, “California real-estate prices never go down”, the USDA’s food triangle, equal pay for equal work, segregation, JFK’s affairs, Watergate, MY Lai, black site prisons, priest pedophilia, the tech bubble (“you just don’t GET it”), the housing bubble, Goldman Sachs, the extent of regulatory capture, animals having emotions, Sandusky, celebrities coming out of the closet, the Higgs Boson, Masters and Johnson, a black president, LBJ’s decline seek re-election, the value of “health foods”, vegetarianism, yoga and meditation, game-changing technology, global climate change, etc. More so over the march of time – much of mainstream science came from those initially labeled heretics, crackpots, etc.

Though many weird, strange, mind-blowing, unbelievable things have turned out to be true, that hardly means that all weird, strange, mind-blowing, unbelievable things are true.

Some core distinctions are willingness to systematically, without bias or agenda, challenge one’s own and society’s views, models of how the world works, prevailing understandings and conventional wisdom. These are high virtues, not something that is worthy of derision and labels such as conspiracy theories..

However, it is hardly a virtue to be driven by conformational bias in assembling facts to form an apparent, though illusory random pattern in order to fulfill some inner need to cast blows against the empire, exude elitism, deride others, irrationally attempt to bring order and make sense of a seemly, at times, irrational challenging life and universe.

/A key distinction is whether one first shoots the arrow or paints the target, is open to considering all evidence, a willingness to change views as new evidence presents itself, always seeking to find alternative answers to explain and overturn one’s current pet POV, having a healthy sense of both skepticism and optimism, and having an identity independent of a particular “truth”. /

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