Book a flight to India and ask around. Do your homework.

On 10/11/2014 12:25 PM, lengli...@cox.net [FairfieldLife] wrote:

Different meditation traditions have different interpretations of what mantras are, and how they should be used.


While I don't have access to either book, I've been able to read excerpts through amazon.com and google books:

Ritual and Mantras: Rules without Meaning <http://www.amazon.com/Ritual-Mantras-Rules-without-Meaning/dp/8120814118/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1411674554&sr=8-3&keywords=mantra+staal>


        
image <http://www.amazon.com/Ritual-Mantras-Rules-without-Meaning/dp/8120814118/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1411674554&sr=8-3&keywords=mantra+staal>
        
        
Ritual and Mantras: Rules without Meaning <http://www.amazon.com/Ritual-Mantras-Rules-without-Meaning/dp/8120814118/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1411674554&sr=8-3&keywords=mantra+staal> Ritual and Mantras: Rules without Meaning [Frits Staal] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Rituals and Mantras: Rules without Me...
        
View on www.amazon... <http://www.amazon.com/Ritual-Mantras-Rules-without-Meaning/dp/8120814118/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1411674554&sr=8-3&keywords=mantra+staal>
        
Preview by Yahoo


Understanding Mantras <http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Mantras-Harvey-P-Alper/dp/8120807464/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1411674614&sr=1-1>


        
image <http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Mantras-Harvey-P-Alper/dp/8120807464/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1411674614&sr=1-1>
        
        
Understanding Mantras <http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Mantras-Harvey-P-Alper/dp/8120807464/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1411674614&sr=1-1> Understanding Mantras [Harvey P. Alper] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Understanding Mantras explores the origin, nature, function, an...
        
View on www.amazon... <http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Mantras-Harvey-P-Alper/dp/8120807464/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1411674614&sr=1-1>
        
Preview by Yahoo



Maharishi's take on how mantras are meaningless is quite traditional--for some people. It's utter nonsense for others, and that is why there is confusion about whether or not Maharishi is "telling the truth" about mantras. There's MANY different traditions, and probably sub-traditions within the traditions.

Likewise, keeping a mantra as a mental thing never to be written down or spoken aloud appears to be traditional as well--for SOME traditions, and again, there's variations there as well.


Best to think of TM as its own tradition with its own rules, rather than trying to justify every little thing that MMY said. Afterall, MMY himself implied that much of what he taught was via intuition (and/or trial and error).

By all accounts, the early courses on the TM-SIdhis were substantially different than how they are taught now, for example.

L



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <noozguru@...> wrote :

The biggest problem with TM is though it tried to be secular it is not secular enough. Maharishi goofed by saying that the mantras are meaningless sounds. They are "attributed" to the Hindu pantheon but are really just sounds. The pantheon itself is made up as analogies to forces in nature. It just so happens that those sounds work well and may be better than others. Even my tantra guru thought they were arrived at by trial and error. And as I have mentioned many a time beej mantras can be used by anyone and it doesn't take a puja to activate them. It's long mantras like the Advanced Technique that required special handling.


On 10/11/2014 05:16 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... <mailto:mjackson74@...> [FairfieldLife] wrote:

    Address what I said to him. How is that stupid? I showed quite
    clearly that he is a liar. The NIH hands out money to just about
    anyone who can write a grant proposal. You might even be able to
    get a few million to study why TM'er are more predisposed to
    become slavish minded dumbasses later in life. But in the final
    analysis society will be better off studying the way South
    Africans wash their balls than bullshit studies on TM's weak and
    non-existent "benefits" - most of TM's modern benefits are lining
    the TMO's pockets.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    *From:* "steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife]"
    <mailto:steve.sundur@...[FairfieldLife]>
    <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
    *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
    <mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
    *Sent:* Friday, October 10, 2014 9:29 PM
    *Subject:* Re: 399652Re: [FairfieldLife] The Happiest school in
    San Francisco

    Michael,

    Did you become this stupid because you stopped your practice of TM
    and the TMSP?

    You brain is addled by TM, but not in the way you think.

    Try something.  I don't know what.  But try to develop an interest
    other than TM.

    You are sinking into utter idiocy.

    P.S.  Try looking back at some of your more early posts.
     Occasionally you had something interesting to say.

    A funny thing happened on the way to forum.  But in your case,
    it's just no so funny!




    ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
    <mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>, <mjackson74@...>
    <mailto:mjackson74@...> wrote :

    One more note, Mr. Nameless Director of Operations, your assertion
    on funding by the NIH - "to be funded by the NIH, rigorous
    assessment is performed by highly experienced scientists. If the
    research was bogus or deeply flawed, the research would not be
    funded or published."

    This is, quite honestly complete bullshit. All one has to do to
    get funding by the NIH is to know how to write a grant proposal.
    That's it.

    Here are just a few things the NIH has funded over the years, some
    of them nearly as stupid as funding research on TM.

     The National Institutes of Health paid researchers $400,000 to
    find out why gay men in Argentina engage in risky sexual behavior
    when they are drunk.

    Researchers at Indiana University's Kinsey Institute, funded by
    NIH, investigated why “young heterosexual adult men have problems
    using condoms.” Price tag? $423,500, according to NIH records.

    The NIH also once spent $442,000 to study the behavior of male
    prostitutes in Vietnam.

    The NIH once spent $800,000 in “stimulus funds” to study the
    impact of a “genital-washing program” on men in South Africa.

    I realize that your much vaunted master Mahesh Prasad lied like a
    dog all the time, so it could be you are lying "as is our
    tradition" but for your own sake, at least make the prevarications
    somewhat credible.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    *From:* "infor cwae infocwae@... [FairfieldLife]"
    <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
    *To:* "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com"
    <mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
    <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
    <mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
    *Sent:* Thursday, October 9, 2014 3:49 PM
    *Subject:* 399652Re: [FairfieldLife] The Happiest school in San
    Francisco

    I am the Director of Operations for the school meditation project
    in San Francisco that uses TM, where the students were found to be
    the happiest in the city. I would like to try and correct some
    misunderstandings that may have occurred as a result of certain
    comments made here recently.

    1. There is a post that suggest we 'stole' couches from a one of
    the high schools we worked in.

    This is incorrect. We purchase used couches from outside sources,
    specifically for the Quiet Time program. We own them.
    2. That the windows and doors in the rooms we used at a high
    school were papered over so that no one could see in, and that the
    school had to remove the papering after we left.
    A single door to a small room was partially papered only during
    training sessions to reduce the distraction from other students
    walking by during passing period. This paper was taken down each
    day, and was not remaining after the meditation training staff
    left the school.
    3. That we had been kicked out of at least 2 schools in SF since
    Jan of this year.
    One school decided to discontinue the Quiet Time program at the
    end of the spring semester due primarily to a vote from faculty
    regarding time constraints. There are many schools throughout CA
    and nationally requesting the program, so we only work with those
    that are able to fit it into their schedule. After providing this
    to 7,000 students, teachers, parents and administrators for the
    last 7 years, we have had over a 90% program satisfaction rating.
    An extremely small minority of parents, teachers and
    administrators have had issues with the program, usually because
    of biases or misunderstandings.
    4. That most of the research referenced by the TM organization is
    "either bogus or deeply flawed"
    There are over 100 studies on TM published in reputable, peer
    reviewed scientific journals indicating various positive mental
    and physical health effects. Research has been done at Stanford,
    Harvard, University of California and other reputable
    institutions. The National Institutes of Health (NIH) has funded
    over 24M worth of research into TM and heart health. In order to
    be published in peer reviewed journals or to be funded by the NIH,
    rigorous assessment is performed by highly experienced scientists.
    If the research was bogus or deeply flawed, the research would not
    be funded or published.








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