Logical arguments about ultimates always contain a flaw. You can reverse the 
form of the argument to support atheism and if you do not see the flaw, it will 
seem equally valid, that is, that atheism is true. Now there are some atheists 
who definitely believe there is no god and they can be as fanatical as a 
fundamentalist religionist. Probably they would have no sense of humour about 
their condition. But a real atheist simply lacks a particular kind of belief 
because that belief seems neither reasonable or likely. They basically just do 
not care. Barry is just testing memes to see what happens when they are 
activated. We all have memes which are basically little snippets of mental 
routines our minds use. We trade them with each other, but for the most part 
these mental stances are just our opinions about the world around us and we 
tend to be be rather uncritical as to how well they really represent what is 
real, while at the same time taking them as reality itself. 

 Take the TMO memes. On FFL, meditators and former meditators all at one time 
believed certain things about experience were at least possible, for example, 
that if you practice TM, which is not a religion, you will find God. The TMO 
memes specify that we are in a state of ignorance, not knowing the nature of 
reality. But were we actually in the state of ignorance, we would not have the 
capability to correctly evaluate what we were told because we would be using 
delusional thinking to evaluate ideas such as transcendence, states of 
consciousness and so forth, so our following this system of thought about 
reality would essentially be an act of insanity, that is, mental illness. The 
system defines us as in some way incapacitated in knowing what is real, and 
then expects us to just jump in, and accept what the system says is real. 
 

 A discussion of the Kalam argument:
 

 Cosmological Kalamity 
http://infidels.org/library/modern/dan_barker/kalamity.html 
 
 Cosmological Kalamity 
http://infidels.org/library/modern/dan_barker/kalamity.html Home » Library » 
Modern » Dan Barker »   Cosmological Kalamity Dan Barker "Daddy, if God made 
everything, who made God?" my daughter Kristi asked me, when she was five years 
old. 
 
 
 
 View on infidels.org 
http://infidels.org/library/modern/dan_barker/kalamity.html 
 Preview by Yahoo 
 
 
  

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <jr_esq@...> wrote :

 Barry, 

 Have you ever thought that atheism is also a belief-- and an unreasonable one 
at that?  The Kalam Cosmological Argument should dispel any of your doubts.
 








 
  


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