From: "Michael Jackson mjackson74@... 
   Well said Barry - and I agree with every word

--- <turquoiseb@...> wrote :

It's NOT that I'm saying that seeking spiritual experiences ISN'T valuable. I'm 
just pointing out that almost no one in history has ever stepped up to the 
plate and made an objective, scientific case for what that value might be. 

It depends on what one wants in life.  Let's say that there 
are basicaly two paths, left path and right path. If the 
left path is a one way trip, the right path is cyclical 
trip. The BG mentions it as sun path and moon path.

Most teachers or seekers just *assume* that these experiences they have or 
claim to have had are valuable, but when called upon to do so, they can't 
really produce any strong arguments for WHY they are valuable, or WHAT that 
supposed value is. I'm suggesting that this oversight is epidemic in the world 
of "spiritual practices," the elephant in the room that no one ever talks 
about. The people promoting these practices just *assume* that these 
experiences they're having or seeking are *worth* having or seeking, and debate 
the supposedly best ways of achieving them. But I don't know of very many who 
have taken that "step back," beyond the assumption, and have tried to make a 
case for WHY they're so intent on achieving these things. What is it that they 
hope to "achieve," and WHY would others want to do so?

Answers such as, "Well, I want to have these experiences because Jim Flanegin 
said that I would be a low-vibe slime until I had them the way he has" do not 
count.  :-)  :-)  :-)

It's the same problem I see with religion in general. The people urging others 
to join their religions don't seem to ever offer any real-world, 
payoff-in-this-lifetime reasons for doing so. They just *assume* that there is 
a payoff, and try to bluff their way through without ever specifying what it 
is. Millions and millions of seekers over the ages, and almost none of them 
have ever come up with a real *value* for all this seeking they're devoting 
their lives to. I'm NOT suggesting that there isn't one, just pointing out that 
no one ever seems to talk about it if there is. 




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